To think this is neglectful?

[newtothis0]

DP has two young girls with his ex whom he sees for one day/night at the weekend. He always takes them to do something fun and therefore baths them in the evening to make sure they go home clean so as not to get an earful from their mum.

Neither of these girls have had their hair cut, ever. It is pretty much down to their lower back and despite copious amounts of conditioner, masks, leave in products, etc, their hair gets so matted because the ends are broken and frayed. It takes 30 minutes or so each to detangle their hair without hurting them.

Their mum will outright refuse to allow their hair to be cut (she has very long hair herself) and for reasons I won't elaborate on here, DP is not prepared to go against her wishes, which I understand. However, AIBU to think that she is verging on neglect by allowing their hair to reach such a poor condition for the sake of vanity?

Have you read the thread ? Ongoing proceedings for more contact, and a difficult ex. It’s entirely possible that OP’s situation is exactly as she’s posted, but still people insist on reading between the lines and looking for reasons to accuse. I really don’t know why people post for advice on MN any more. Picking apart the posts instead of advising on the matter at hand, and posters projecting their own issues onto the OP seems to be the norm these days.

I think you’re doing everything you can OP.
I’m assuming the ongoing proceedings are for 50/50 or similar so play the long game. Do what you can for their hair and maybe keep a diary of of not just how their hair is but things like their teeth — does mum take them to a dentist, do shoes fit correctly, what the children eat at home but don’t question them too much. Are they generally happy and doing well in school?

And stay out of it - it's between the parents. This is not a hill to die on while there are ongoing court proceedings.

It may have escaped your notice but OP didn’t post about the amount of access and didn’t comment on the court proceedings until - very predictably for MN - it was picked up almost immediately and posters started pressing for more information. As soon as OP gave it the inevitable criticism followed. The focus was meant to be the hair issue - OP was asking for advice until such time as the custody is resolved and they have more agency in the care of the girls.

This thread is not about the hair really. Neither parent is willing cut the hair, and OP is willing to accept a partner that doesn't do that. The purpose of mumsnet is to support parents. Not give new girlfriends ammunition to attack single mothers that are doing pretty much all of the parenting on their own.

I get it - I have a step daughter and a few years ago we took her away on holiday with long hair. Spent close to an hour each day brushing the hair. Her hair gets matter and some days after swimming which makes it worse I had to cut the knots out as she was crying from the pain of the brushing.

It's not terrible. I first had my hair cut when I was 8 and was definitely not neglected. If the condition isn't great, that's a shame, but it's not neglect and it's not something you are in a position to kick off about.

For the OP it absolutely is about the hair. Others on the thread are making it about something else, not the OP. There is nothing in OP’s posts to say her partner is neglectful, and OP herself has treated the hair with good quality products. If ex is difficult and there is an ongoing custody proceeding, the last thing her DP should do is cut their hair without the agreement of their mum - OP says that would be enough for her to stop contact.

Are you sure it's the mum who doesn't want it cut rather than the kids?

My kids both have long curly hair (one is a boy with waste length hair). I would happily get it cut but they do not want it cut (older one suspected asd, struggles with change). It absolutely can become matted even when brushed regularly (due to being so curly) so I can understand that aspect.

I'm sure people do judge for it but in our case I very much believe in letting the children have their own choice about their hair, clothes etc. As long as they are safe and happy that's what matters to me.

Recommend matrix biolage hydrasource conditioner.

I don't think it would be considered neglectful, no. You're doing all the right things and the girls will remember when they're older that their dad and his GF took them for days out and looked after their hygiene etc. I would focus on giving them the skills and wherewithal to take care of their hair themselves, and try to give that positive associations. Could you get them one of those head hair (real size) things to play with, practice brushing hair and doing ponytails? It won't be too long before they can do braids themselves. Can they brush each other's hair gently as they would want their own to be brushed? Can you let them do your hair? Put some music on etc make it a nice thing they do as play at your house. When they're old enough they will choose what to do with their own hair, and as PP have said you obviously have to choose your battles with their mum at the moment.
If the ends are the first baby hair they've had, it's bound to be very weak. There's something about first hair cuts that can be very loaded and emotional for some reason.

Their school will have a safeguarding lead. This could be part of a general pattern of neglect so your DP needs to raise it with them. He could then raise concerns about their diet and wellbeing.

I don't think It's neglectful if they are generally clean and their hair is brushed and cared for regularly it is not very convenient though for young children especially one with sensory issues. Why are their hair getting so tangled though? With the right products in their hair and some braids their hair should be fairly tidy and not difficult to brush.

I was only talking about the hair. Her involvement should end at helping dad choose a better hairbrush. Not her kids, not her place.

My hair is long, very fine but I have a lot of it, curly and loves to knot and matt. For example if I wear a shirt with a collar, my hair will matt at the base of my neck where it rubs on the collar.

I've got a detangling brush - one of these. It is amazing and doesn't tug at all. My hairdresser was super impressed with it.

I also oil. Hair oil can't be overrated. Use a proper hair oil - coconut oil really doesn't help IME. Between washes you can use a spray in moisturiser then lock it in with oil over the top.

take a photo of the state of it for your records then cut a bit off at the end. What’s she gonna do about it?

I wish people would stop saying not cutting hair is neglectful, it absolutely is not!

It's the cultural norm in the UK, not everywhere and that's before any religious factors. Go find a sikh person that practices Kesh and you may find some of the most cared for hair you've ever seen, that's never been cut for the duration of their life!

In isolation the lack of hair cutting isn't neglect, the fact they manage to detangle it means its unlikely that the hair is never cared for the remainder of the time too. Some people just have knotty hair. The diet not being the best there's no further explanation of if its fussy eating, lack of food available or if the mother just doesn't feed them. The reason is important before deciding that's neglect too.

But it makes the child look unkempt.

Can you clarify, are the children showing up to your house once a week with dirty matted hair, as if it hasn't been cared for at all? Or do they just have particularly difficult hair (possibly worsened by being in not great condition) that gets unkempt easily?

First off, I would step back a bit - these are your DP's children, not yours, and it sounds like a lot of the personal care is falling to you. He is just as capable as you of learning to care for their hair, and maybe if he is the one struggling with the brush he will be more motivated to solve the issue.

As it's textured hair he will probably be best with a good deep conditioner, leave in conditioner and a wide comb. He can French braid it - that can last a good few days, and it's not so bad to brush when you take the braids out. He could also invest in satin scrunchies and either satin pillowcases or hair bonnets for sleeping - do they actually sleep at your house?

He is technically entitled to cut their hair, but I would advise against it if the split has been particularly acrimonious, you don't want to upset their mum if possible as it could cause other issues.

The glaring issue that stands out is that he sees them very little, which is worrying if he has concerns over neglect. You say there are ongoing proceedings - hopefully they can be quickly resolved and he can have the children a lot more of the time. Even if he decides to not cut the hair, a good detangle and deep condition several times a week, along with the ability to feed the children healthy meals, is going to make a massive difference to their hair. I would concentrate on the custody issue as if you can solve that then the hair issue should get a lot easier.

As the saying goes, ‘if you’ve met one autistic child you’ve met one autistic child’. As a parent with autistic children you should recognise this.

It sounds like the hair is breaking/damaged at a particular length though, rather than just being difficult to manage. I can understand that, as a child I was seriously ill with gastro-intestinal problems, and during that time my hair and nails developed very poorly. So I had a dividing line between my hair during my illness (prone to breakage, damaged, prone to matting) and the new healthy hair that came through after I'd had treatment. The line moved down as my hair grew.

If there's a definite point at which the children's hair becomes damaged, that suggests a specific timeline of physical illness/trauma, where they were not receiving adequate nutrition. If the hair is now growing healthy, but you can't cut the damaged sections, then all you can do is wait it out, and eventually the damaged hair will break and crumble on its own.

@Survivingnotthriving24

I’ve lived in the UK my whole life and the cultural norm of not cutting hair seems to have passed me by, outside of religious practice.

Me too, honestly. Haircuts are a basic need these days.

OP says she uses the children as weapons, so possibly she’ll stop the visits.

Dunno why you’re blaming the Mum. They have two parents. Well one parent and one man they have a sleepover with each week.

Why are posters deliberately ignoring OP’s updates about the ongoing custody proceedings, in favour of accusing her DP of being a shit dad ? None of us know what the circumstances are surrounding contact, and OP, rightly, doesn’t want to give outing details while legal proceedings are ongoing.