To think this is neglectful?

[newtothis0]

DP has two young girls with his ex whom he sees for one day/night at the weekend. He always takes them to do something fun and therefore baths them in the evening to make sure they go home clean so as not to get an earful from their mum.

Neither of these girls have had their hair cut, ever. It is pretty much down to their lower back and despite copious amounts of conditioner, masks, leave in products, etc, their hair gets so matted because the ends are broken and frayed. It takes 30 minutes or so each to detangle their hair without hurting them.

Their mum will outright refuse to allow their hair to be cut (she has very long hair herself) and for reasons I won't elaborate on here, DP is not prepared to go against her wishes, which I understand. However, AIBU to think that she is verging on neglect by allowing their hair to reach such a poor condition for the sake of vanity?

I've read all updates. You say theree are 'proceedings'. This would take a matter of months to resolve in family court.

My 4yo has never had her hair cut. It’s long but ringlets so appears much shorter. I can count on one hand how many times my 10yo’s hair has been cut. Hers is thicker and wavy more than curly now. It’s long but not ridiculously so. If you looked at my children, you wouldn’t think their hair has been neglected. We make sure to wash it and condition it well with products suitable for their hair type. They both have it brushed thoroughly and, even after a pj day, it never looks matted.

Are they literally not having it brushed between stays at yours?

But if that's the case wouldn't the mother get it cut shorter or regularly trimmed.

Not convinced it's about religion either I know Sikh women who never have their hair cut and it is always neat and in beautiful condition .

And religions like Pentecostal or Holiness denominations allow hair to be trimmed just not cut short unless a head covering is worn so I don't think it's that either.

How do you or their father know their diet is poor and lacking if he only has them for one night a week?

If it was solely answering the question of AIBU, the first sentence was sufficient.

Fair question.

regardless, the hair thing isn't close to neglect.

By unsalvagable I mean the breakage in their hair is so significant that that section needs cutting off/back to the length where the hair shaft is still healthy, rather than being repairable using products.

This is a tricky one but I don't think the fact the hair is matted or unkept is necessarily unusual. Children's hair - depending on hair type - can be quite difficult to maintain sometimes. Sometimes the child - as you say - has sensory issues or sometimes the are wriggly. Sometimes there is a lack of time.
Mum here is for all intents and purposes a single mother. She will be cooking, cleaning, doing everything for these (well cared for) girls all week. If you find it cumbersome or labour intensive doing the girls hair once a week, how do you think she feels? To answer your question this does not sound like neglect. Do you understand what it means for a child to be neglected?

Is its really for vanity reason? Maybe there us cultural or religion belief that you dont know about? Its really strange if its because vanity reasons

Your title was “To think this is neglectful??”
No, it is not.

Wash their hair on arrival leave in conditioner detangler comb, I have difficult hair. Once knots are out get their hair in neat plaits. If it’s not being looked after properly at home or washed the plaits will help for a couple of days at least.

also don’t worry if they aren’t allowed to get their clothes dirty they also change into at dads house clothes on arrival and can get as dirty as they please.

I have longer finer hair and a Tangle Teezer brush has been a god send for knots or matts. Plaits? Aussie 3 minute miracle which makes hair softer and easier to deal with, as it is only once a week. Wide toothed comb? If hair tends to frizz..frizz ease by John Frieda is really good. Only things I can think of if you cannot cut it.

It really does depend on the hair type, my daughter has long hair, mid back, ends trimmed once a year but it is a real pain to comb through after washing.

There can't possibly be a back story which answers why your DP would be stopped from having contact with his children for having their hair cut. You say that there are live proceedings so your DP has the perfect opportunity to alleviate his purported concerns about neglect whilst the case is in the court arena.

If I were your partner I wouldn't allow my children to suffer. So if its really as bad as you say, he should photograph the matts then cut their hair. If there are 'repercussions' that he fears will harm his children he needs to raise a safeguarding concern. If its repercussions that will effect his contact then he needs to be assertive in fighting it through legal channels. The photographs of hair so bad the children are suffering neglect should help him.

That's a difficult one, as my autistic child absolutely will not allow me to cut her hair. She has had two hair cuts in her whole life and she's almost a teenager now. Last hair cut didn't make a difference as she'd only let me snip 2" off.

Life would be so much easier if I could take 9 inches off it as a minimum but she's having none of it.

I don't have any problems with my youngest's hair, hers has never been cut but she doesn't move in her sleep and never gets tats.

Just put their hair in a ponytail without brushing. Don’t wash their hair, just leave it for their mum to deal with.

Are both children in school? I'm surprised the teachers haven't picked up on this. It's going to be an absolute nightmare if they get nits. I'd be checking for that every time they came.

The sensory issues might be a simple vicious cycle - I'd have an aversion to having my hair washed or brushed too if it was an absolute trial every time!

I had long hair (down to my bum) throughout childhood, but I always had regular trims too. Kids in my class who bragged 'I've never had a haircut' always had straggly ends that looked like, as my grandmother would say, 'rats have been chewing them', it's not a badge of honour to never cut your hair

Not saying it's neglect or not. I don't know where the threshold lies. But it's an issue with a simple solution, you get it cut short or even shorn off if you can't cope with it. I say this as someone with curly, mattable, tangly hair who keeps it to shoulder length, sleeps on satin pillowcases to manage it, uses a load of products on it and can only comb it when wet, never use a brush.

She can get it sorted out. It's the fact that she isn't doing anything to sort it which makes me think it's sad. Matted hair could cause the kids at school to mock the girls and bullying is right up near the top when it comes to Adverse Childhood Experiences.

The RSPCA consider letting an animals fur get matted in extremis to be a form of ill treatment. I don't see why kids have to endure painful knots in their hair because mummy can't be bothered with the hairdresser.

The culture thing I don't buy. Some cultures practice terrible things like bull fighting or forced marriage. She is in Britain and needs to act like it .

If you use a wide comb after conditioner is put it it really helps the tangles come out easier and less pain. My daughter has very curly hair and this worked for us. Also a couple drops of tree tea oil help keep away nits because if the kids get them you can catch them too. I don't know if you can find it in your area but a product called knotts on your life has been helpful.

I know people are saying it's not your business but I think it really is your business. It's causing unnecessary suffering and pain to these girls and I think any adult who cares about their welfare would want to raise concerns. If the parents won't listen then it needs to be raised to a safeguarding lead, like at their school or doctors who can take the appropriate steps to determine what sort of involvement, if any, it needs. It can be their call, but get it on their radar.

I was of the mind when I first started writing this that it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission but I have taken pause and think that one or both parents would consider that an assault so I think it's best for some sort of authority to explain that this isn't just neglect in terms of hygiene and proper hair care but it's pretty much the intentional infliction of pain on children.

You sound lovely OP, and child welfare should come first in any relationship.

Could it be she doesn't have time that morning? My DC's hair can get tangled overnight if not plaited before bed. She may just be trying to get them out of the door.

Not getting hair cut is not neglect, it's a request from their DM that isn't too unusual. It being in a tangled mess the majority of the time could be a potential sign of neglect. Surely the school could listen to those concerns, the kids may be presentable at school. Their hair may have been something he used to do when he'd send them back home to her so she stopped giving him the same grace and left it as his problem, on his time. Perhaps she wants a break from it that 1 day a week. Not ideal at all but is there more to this?

To put it into context, I have one DC who hates having their hair washed, we do it regularly and keep it styled. That DC will not allow anyone to cut it. I have to snip it slowly whilst they're busy to get it done, sometimes over hours or a few days. Otherwise, the meltdowns and distress is awful. Their DM may not be seeing the bigger picture and think not cutting it is 1 less distressing experience.

The dirty clothes shouldn't be an issue, it may have come from dad not being careful with their clothes and her not being able to afford replacements. I'd be annoyed if my clothes kept coming back stained as the primary parent. A PP has a wonderful suggestion of keeping dad clothes on when they're with him and keeping her clothes to go home in so they're clean.

@newtothis0 I'm curious, how long have you been with your DP and did the custody issues start before or after you were around? Have you ever read any court docs or messages between your DP and his ex? At lot of partners will say ex is being unfair and doesn't want them to have time with the kids but perhaps he's been inadequate in the past or there is history you have not been privy to. It seems like these things may be being pulled out as "gotcha" issues to hold against the primary parent who may be dropping the ball slightly.

You won't want to hear it, but you're too involved.
For whatever reason they are both agreeing to not cut the girls hair. You need to just stay out of it really, it's between the parents. The more you get involved the more you will only make trouble for yourself in the long run.

You obviously want to support your partner, but challenging his ex on these things isn't the way to do that. You need to allow your partner to handle this situation his way and support him in the choices he makes when it comes to their daughters. Anything else will just cause endless drama.

Sheets matt hair. Go cotton.