Hoping that Greg Wallace is forgiven, rather than cancelled

[Toodaloo1567]

Just a few concerns about this whole GW thing. Caveat: I do not condone behaviour that is illegal.

1. It does kind of look like a whole bunch of privileged TV luvvies are clamouring to denounce someone with really quite humble roots. I grew up in London and am constantly paranoid about how I come across to my mainly middle class colleagues. The thing is, middle class and privileged people operate by a set of unwritten rules. It’s like a full time job in itself trying to emulate their way of interacting, lest you be called out for not being ‘nice’ enough or doing something odd to them, like forgetting to start an email with ‘Hope you are well?’. Only, they won’t let you know to your face that you’ve accidentally been too sharp or direct, or maybe that your joke wasn’t woke enough - no, that stuff just goes straight to HR.
2. The equality act 2010 makes it the employer’s responsibility to prevent sexual harassment in the workplace. Why wasn’t all this lewd stuff dealt with? GW said that no one had made a formal complaint. Again, it makes me wonder whether the middle class luvvies just didn’t want to call things out at the time because it’s ‘beneath’ them to even consider doing something about it.
3. Even though he’s apologised, the public doesn’t think that’s good enough. It’s like only perfect people get to keep their careers. Woe betide you if you said something crass on twitter 10 years ago, or got caught speeding or something.

Of course, lots of you would want to shout me down over this, but you know what? We’re all mums here and many of us have sons. Boys and young men do and say crass things. GW hasn’t raped or systematically abused anyone. It doesn’t make what’s happened right, but I also don’t think it’s right that swarms of pitch-fork waving strangers get to play judge, jury and executioner. I’m a big fan of forgiveness. Am I the only one?

Yes, it would. If it upsets even one person, then they shouldn't be happening.

I enjoy a laugh as much as anyone but crass conversations are tip toeing across a very fine line, and all it takes is for one person to take something the wrong way or as I said, to use it as a weapon in a fallout.

I had one case not long ago where a woman complained about what was quite disgusting banter from a man, stuff about her spreading her legs etc. She was immediately moved for her own protection and an investigation was told by witnesses that she was every bit as bad, until the day she decided to use it against him.

A colleague made a mildly smutty remark about a man in a team meeting, and another colleague immediately and publicly shut her down.

A person who feels uncomfortable is probably the least likely to challenge the conversation, as they don't want to be seen as a killjoy, so you might never know.

You can't be too careful.

It’s the boss’ responsibility to ensure there isn’t a hostile work environment.

I think if it was a one off then I would have said the same- in this case clearly it's in built into his personality and the only place you tend to be able to get away with that these days is an all male workforce with similar personalities - I'm 62 and when younger I've worked with a few like this and used to just laugh it off and tell them to 'f* off' or make a similar joke on them - but the corporate world has changed and these days you will get reported by women - that's just how it is - These men must know that- the big issue in entertainment is that people don't report because they are all desparate to get on , it's a very competitive environment and to the corporations and independent production companies 'talent' ( I use that word very loosely) is king - and they are more likely to remain and you won't get booked again- Those aspects need looking at , otherwise idiots like this man will simply think it's all fine and dandy and they are untouchable.

Just because you have no time for it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It really does. I see it a lot.

Explain this to me - what do you mean by "discrimination"? Do you understand the term at all?

Yeah no worries, what I meant by that was that if someone came to me and said their cultural beliefs meant that they didn’t want to be around certain conversations, so could I change something, it would be changed.

For example, as I’ve already said that there are conversations about sex that take place in our workplace. If the religious beliefs of someone in that office meant that conversation was taboo, it wouldn’t be happening. They are now, because that isn’t the case.

I was asked what I’d do about cultural beliefs and those conversations, so this was in response to that.

Honestly I would have a chat to HR to get some advice around it. If those conversations are happening freely then a legal line has already been crossed. It just takes one person to say that this has created a hostile working environment for them and it’s game over and you and your employers have left yourselves wide open for a massive lawsuit.

Found this in a BBC article about sexual harassment in the workplace.

According to the workplace experts Acas, examples include:

• making sexual remarks about someone's body, clothing or appearance
• asking questions about someone's sex life
• telling sexually offensive jokes, making sexual comments or jokes about someone's sexual orientation or gender reassignment
• displaying or sharing pornographic or sexual images, or other sexual content
• touching someone against their will, for example, hugging them
• sexual assault or rape

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65311346.amp

Yeah I’ve just been on the ACAS and EHRC websites - discussing your sex life could be classed as sexual harassment.

It’s never come up for us in that context, though obviously it could. We have had sexual harassment at work, but it was toward me and I dealt with it without reporting any further.

My original question was more around women also being crass, in that is it misogyny and a threat if women are also doing it, but every day is a school day!

Ok, discrimination isn't how I'd necessarily see it but I suppose you've kind of made a case-ish.

My advice - don't wait for someone to have to come to you. A person isn't necessarily going to want to divulge their objection on religious grounds.

Where I work, there's not a lot of that sort of conversations. I don't hear anyone talking about blow jobs or their sex lives, nor do I want to. Well I didn't when I was based in the office; somehow doubt that has changed any.

The places I come across it tends to be what would have been traditionally known as manual/non-skilled occupations. When it does implode, it can be spectacular, tribunals, the works.

You are leaving yourself in a vulnerable position by turning a blind eye/joining in, because if the shit ever does hit the fan, then it will be on you.

Wow. The BBC should really read that article they wrote.

@AgaNewbie Yes, it did seem rather ironic 🙃

Also, I’m quite bored and was searching the BBC site for any previous articles about Greg. I found a story from 2013 about his involvement in a brawl with a man called Paul Bates, whom Greg attacked “after accusing him of 'touching' his girlfriend” (according to the Mail, who have all the juicy details, of course).

Gregg Wallace said today he 'did what any bloke would do' after punching a diner 'at least five times' because he allegedly felt his 27-year-old girlfriend's bottom.

The MasterChef judge started a drunken brawl with Paul Bates, a magazine publisher who the TV star claims also made 'inappropriate comments' to Anne-Marie Sterpini.

Wallace is said to have rained blows on the 55-year-old as they grappled on the floor in front of shocked guests at the £75-a-head event on Saturday evening.

But Mr Bates, who had taken his daughter to the the five-course dinner at a luxury Worcestershire hotel, accused the greengrocer of ‘turning on him out of the blue’.

Gregg Wallace said today he 'did what any bloke would do' after punching a diner 'at least five times' because he allegedly felt his 27-year-old girlfriend's bottom.

Oh the irony!

I've only just got around to listening to this podcast. I'm finding it interesting to compare coverage across different shows.

The R4 Media Programme was pretty good on the whole and one of the presenters commented that he had been aware of these stories circulating about "greggggg the perve" since before 2008!

The R4 "When it Hits the Fan" show was not quite as good. Not terrible but skirted a bit too close to excusing the Beeb at points.
The Rest is Entertainment - I found it fascinating that the first few minutes was Osman basically making excuses for "not knowing" at the time of his "good bloke" comments whilst also claiming that he did ask around at the time (obviously not widely) and then giving and extensive catalog of reasons as to why its not really the production company's fault (the production company where he was a senior exec for some years). Methink he doth protest rather more than he should need to.

That said, JT is surely the celeb with the most questions to answer.

I find it interesting that Cherry Healey’s keeping her head down. She surely must have been party to some of the In the Factory incidents.

@crumblingschools You tagged me in the other thread but it filled up before I returned to it.
Your question was "so are you saying it is up to women to change men’s behaviour?" - not at all but if I know the point which triggered your question I'm happy to answer.

I do think (very strongly) that we all have a responsibility to stand with and support our peers and juniors whether male or female or any other protected characteristic. In that sense everyone, including women, is responsible for challenging the behaviour.

Is she "JT" for the Factory series? Sorry I've not seen it but if so then yes, I'd imagine she is keeping head down for the same reason. I've not seen matching soft focus PR pieces about her - perhaps she needs JT's PR firm 😀

@AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta @C8H10N4O2 do think (very strongly) that we all have a responsibility to stand with and support our peers and juniors whether male or female or any other protected characteristic. In that sense everyone, including women, is responsible for challenging the behaviour.

I agree with you entirely but I would also add we need to listen to what woman (or otherwise) are saying. What is it that's making them uncomfortable and why? Not just dismiss it out of hand as "jokes or bants" or excuse it with "well nobody else minds". Because chances are that they probably do but nobody wants to be first to speak up.

No idea how/why I managed to tag myself into this message 🤦🤦

Say Nowt Saw Nowt Look Over There LTD!

Yes, she is. I’m quite surprised the media haven’t hunted her down to find out what she’s observed.

What the actual fuck! How does/did this man still have a career. Was he really so popular with viewers?????

I recommend watching the full Victoria Derbyshire interview with the arsehole’s Ghostwriter (currently on YouTube). His behaviour has been extreme sexual harassment, with sexual assault. One example of a comment he made to her (a single mother whom had turned down other work for the job and signed a non-disclosure agreement) is “if you won’t sleep with me, will you lick my arsehole”? Any women defending him should be ashamed of themselves.

Please end this thread

The end