To say something now or leave it to see if I hear from the school - DD misgendered a teacher

[EvilsElsasPetSnowman]

DD is 11 in year 7. She had a non-binary teacher who she has to refer to as ‘Mx Surname’ (pronounced Mix). When she started she said “It’s obvious she’s a woman as she has boobs and a woman’s voice” but that they were told they must only refer to her as Mx. She thought it was a load of nonsense (as do I) but I told her that it’s best not to ruffle feathers and just go along with it because I don’t want her to be in trouble but I thought I’d have to keep a beady eye out for any problems.

On Friday afternoon she came back from school panicking because she accidentally called this teacher Miss when doing the register. They have to say “Here Mx” when their names are called and she said “Here Miss”. The teacher said “Really DDName, I have been your teacher for 12 weeks now, you know my pronouns!” And moved on. DD said she (DD) went bright red and felt embarrassed.

I have gone back and forth over the weekend, I’m really torn between saying something and leaving it because I don’t want DD to be a target because I’ve pissed a teacher off, or just be labelled a horrible bigot (let’s face it school will not see my POV). It’s a subject she absolutely adores as well so I don’t want her to have any backlash because she struggles with certain subjects and so lives for the few she enjoys including this one.

So Im wondering if I should email the school saying children should not be shamed for “misgendering”, this person is an adult and should be a bit more resilient and not expect children to put aide their subconscious and shirk reality, or should I wait to see if there’s any backlash before doing that? Obviously if there is I’ll defend DD to the hilt but I am thinking about getting ahead of the game as the whole thing really pisses me off.

YABU = say something now
YANBU = wait it out

informed on the subject and understand what the facts are

they clearly aren’t given the statements that are being made.

The teacher is non binary. That's the difference. And you know that.

Nobody is really non binary. HTH

Oh yes your mythical PHD

It stands to reason that you would believe my PhD to be “mythical” (it’s like your belief that “gender” is “mythical”). Of course you have no idea what the actual facts of the matter are , but you have formed a judgement because it confirms/ satisfies your existing perceptions / biases.

Exactly.

Teacher is a woman, no matter how she deludes herself.

You might well have a PHD in Gender Studies Tandora, you're a random on the internet, who knows the truth of what you say.

But what is clear is that there ARE only two sexes and it is harmful for a myriad of reasons highlighted above to believe that society should be structured on what is unmeasurable personality traits. There is no test for this elusive gendered sole. It goes 100% on self declaration, this may or may not be why so may bad actor males have used it for nefarious purposes.

So you can have all the PHDs in the world on the nature of human personality and how human minds perceive themselves but you can't compel others to agree with your belief system.

It is going to be an increasingly uphill struggle the more bad actors use the 'gendered souls' argument to erode reasonable sex based boundaries. There is an entirely rational pushback. You say I am bigoted yet I say your belief system is the bigoted one because it puts women and children into a vulnerable position where they can no longer set reasonable boundaries against males.

To go to the point of the OP. The Teacher is perfectly entitled to believe that she is non binary. That is up to her and her personality. What is unreasonable about this teacher's behaviour is her insistence that children validate that identity. She doesn't have to do that, the register can be taken without the use of the word Mix. She is therefore overstepping the boundary between her own beliefs, that she is perfectly entitled to hold, to imposing that belief system on children in an educational setting.

😔

Mx isn't a pronoun, it's an honorific. I'd rather the teacher concentrate on getting language correct than shaming kids for not going along with their made up identities. No one is 'non-binary'.

YANBU OP. I'd go and talk to the school.

I'm sorry that reality makes you feel sad Tandora, but women are not responsible to prop the feelings of males or females who claim a gendered personality. This extends to males who identify as trans women.

And it is most certainly unreasonable for teachers to require children to behave as 'props' to their gendered belief systems. Their job is to teach.

It is a complete and utter safeguarding fail to use the education system to prop up a demonstrably harmful belief system.

🤯 what makes me sad is the transphobia and inability to reflect on that.

What you wrote in your post sort of makes sense on its own terms, but the issue is that the entire stream of reasoning is based on the premise that recognising / respecting/ validating trans experience is *inherently threatening / dangerous/ violating to women and children. This is transphobia.

Trans people are not a threat to women and children.

Being trans is not a “belief system”.

A trans person asking that their identity is respected and recognised is not violating anyone’s boundaries, or making any kind of unreasonable imposition on others. It’s no different from recognising and respecting someone’s race, sexuality or any other essential characteristic of a person.

No the truth about harms to women and children and the impact on the right to say no to males resulting from the insistence that males with transgender identities be allowed in women's sex spaces is not transphobic.

Blame the bad actor males for highlighting the issues so they can no longer be argued to be merely theoretical or transphobic. Not the women who complain about them.

If believing that women are a sex class independent of males is transphobic then there is clearly a clash of rights. One could argue that trans rights are inherently misogynistic because they put the feelings of males with gender beliefs above the needs of women to single sex spaces where those spaces matter for dignity and safety.

And no it's not the same as racism. Unbelievably racist that you should suggest this.

This post is racist, homophobic, and extremely offensive.

Clearly you are in need of intense reflection

“MIX”?!!!

for the love of Christ!

insanity

allowed in women's sex spaces is not transphobic

this thread has nothing to do with women’s spaces. It’s about a title to recognise and respect that this teacher is trans .

You seem to think that respecting this teacher as trans is inherently dangerous to women and children . That is transphobia.

Please explain how it is racist and homophobic

It just baffles me that we are being forced to pander to delusion and mental illness.

We don't tell Schizophrenics the voices are real, so I really don't understand why we are pandering to dysphoria that whilst sad actually means the person is in need of help.

We will either hit a point where everyone realises just how ridiculous this whole thing is (about as sane as flat earthers) or the world is just going to get more terrifying for (real) woman and girls.

It’s analogous to any sort of prejudice directed against a group of people based on an essential characteristic of a person- racism, homophobia, xenophobia, ableism, sexism etc.

You don’t see this because you don’t understand that being trans is an essential characteristic of a person - you think it’s a “made up” “lifestyle” choice. Very much like how people used to see homosexuality.

Wow that’s a leap.

No I haven’t said that.

I have said that teaching children to lie about what they see is a safeguarding fail.

First of all, you're obsessed with "trans" when nobody has suggested this teacher is trans. How appalling of you to label someone to suit your own narrative.

Also, being delusional is not a protected characteristic. This teacher claims to be non binary. An essential definition of being human is being binary, we are a binary sexed species and every human who has ever lived has been biologically either male or female. Noone has ever changed from one to the other. .

This teacher is a woman. She knows it, all the kids know it, OP knows it, and so do you. Compelling children to join in a fiction that she is anything but a woman is ridiculous.

She’s not being asked to lie about what she sees. She’s just being asked to respect this teachers pronouns.

This is it in a nutshell. If its genuine (and not an attempt to get into women's spaces for nefarious reasons) its dysmorphia and should be treated as such.

I work in children's services and the amount of traumatised children we have that believe they are trans, is to me a symptom of what they have experienced.
We encounter lots of girls with autism that believe they should be male. Instead of pandering to this dysmorphia we should be treating the underlying issues. Instead we call Millie Max and use male pronouns and everyone is afraid to say the obvious for fear of being called transphobic.

First of all, you're obsessed with "trans" when nobody has suggested this teacher is trans. How appalling of you to label someone to suit your own narrative

Non binary people are trans. Trans is a word used to describe people whose gender does not match their sex registered at birth.

Calling trans people “delusional” simply because they are trans, and calling being trans “a fiction” is derogatory , ignorant, and transphobic.

oh give over the homophobia is insisting that sexuality should now be gender based . In your world view same sex attraction doesn’t or shouldn’t exist.

being trans may be intrinsic to the trans person, but no one should be compelled to agree that they should be treated as the opposite sex. It’s trans demands that are unreasonable. Gay people aren’t making demands to be treated by society as something they are not (the opposite sex)

I won’t drag up your endless views on this, but I know it’s exhaustively been explained to you over many many threads over the years.

Homosexuality is in the name, same sex attraction that is observable not only in human mammalian behaviour. It is innate, like biological sex itself.

Being trans is the opposition of innate, it is a soico/environmental decision of the individual person based on perception. It requires participation to make it reality, whilst sexuality and biology sex would continue to occur even without human observance. So to say it’s a ‘lifestyle choice’ is quite trigger heavy considering it’s wrong links to homosexuality. However being trans does require an active change and continuous social and medical support for it to sustained, and as we see from situations like the op, can quite easily fold when one person chooses not to be complicit in the belief.

yes she is. She knows that the teacher is female she’s being asked to use language that isn’t consistent with that. That is unreasonable. The teacher can do the register without insisting that their gender is affirmed by children who don’t agree with their belief system.