To say something now or leave it to see if I hear from the school - DD misgendered a teacher

[EvilsElsasPetSnowman]

DD is 11 in year 7. She had a non-binary teacher who she has to refer to as ‘Mx Surname’ (pronounced Mix). When she started she said “It’s obvious she’s a woman as she has boobs and a woman’s voice” but that they were told they must only refer to her as Mx. She thought it was a load of nonsense (as do I) but I told her that it’s best not to ruffle feathers and just go along with it because I don’t want her to be in trouble but I thought I’d have to keep a beady eye out for any problems.

On Friday afternoon she came back from school panicking because she accidentally called this teacher Miss when doing the register. They have to say “Here Mx” when their names are called and she said “Here Miss”. The teacher said “Really DDName, I have been your teacher for 12 weeks now, you know my pronouns!” And moved on. DD said she (DD) went bright red and felt embarrassed.

I have gone back and forth over the weekend, I’m really torn between saying something and leaving it because I don’t want DD to be a target because I’ve pissed a teacher off, or just be labelled a horrible bigot (let’s face it school will not see my POV). It’s a subject she absolutely adores as well so I don’t want her to have any backlash because she struggles with certain subjects and so lives for the few she enjoys including this one.

So Im wondering if I should email the school saying children should not be shamed for “misgendering”, this person is an adult and should be a bit more resilient and not expect children to put aide their subconscious and shirk reality, or should I wait to see if there’s any backlash before doing that? Obviously if there is I’ll defend DD to the hilt but I am thinking about getting ahead of the game as the whole thing really pisses me off.

YABU = say something now
YANBU = wait it out

There’s no such thing as “gender ideology”. Your belief in this thing called “gender ideology” and your fear/ distain for it , is the ideology.

Being trans is a real condition/ element of human diversity, that has always existed and as far as we can tell always will, regardless of your beliefs.

Time for you to get over it.

No one is asking OP or her child to pretend this teacher doesn't have a vagina, a feminine voice or female secondary sexual characteristics. If youve guessed those are what that person has, then good for you I suppose - although a very strange thing to be so hung up on. Gross to think about this teachers private areas, but you can if you like i guess.
Any other topic and we'd be screaming to not be defined by our genitals yet OP seems to want to teach her daughter to concentrate on those when talking with people. Creepy.*

THIS!!!!

Fine, but "what someone wants to title themselves" is not the same thing as forcing others, including schoolchildren, to join in.

Sorry OP I chose YANBU but I see that is for "wait it out". Say something!! This is nuts, your child should not have to be carefully navigating an adult's self-perception. She should not have been told off, the teacher should have just acted like a grown up and moved on.

You, not the OP, are the one who seems to be obsessed with genitals. I haven’t seen anyone else mention them.

It is true that humans have only two sexes. The fact that some unfortunate people are born with Disorders of Sexual Development does not change that, any more than the fact that some unfortunate people are born with a vestigial tail or an extra finger changes the fact that humans don’t have tails and do have four fingers and a thumb on each hand.

People can call themselves whatever gender they like, however silly it may seem to others. But that doesn’t mean they are entitled to insist on everyone else, including schoolchildren, humouring them by going along with it.

The insistence by some that they are "binary" simply shows that they think of gender solely in terms of the traditional stereotypes. It is regressive and just reinforces those stereotypes. It would be far more progressive for the teacher to show children that she is a woman who chooses to sometimes present and behave in ways stereotypically associated with males, if that is what she wants to do.

It’s nothing to do with titles. Saying "Here miss" is not using "miss" as a title. No-one would expect a child to say "Here Mrs" or "Here Ms" or "Here Mr". Presumably the school normally asks children to address male teachers as "Sir" and female ones as "Miss". The teacher, who chooses to call herself Mx Teacher as her title, is still a female.

And if it really worries her so much to be called "miss" by children answering the register, why not ask them to just say "Here"? Insisting on them saying "Here mx" is purely an attempt on her part at forced validation.

Although I understand your feelings unless she is in big trouble (asked to stay behind after school etc etc) I would let it go. Just say that the title MX is important to that teacher so please use it. I would imagine it is a genuine mistake.

Where I work one of the outpatients has a boy's name but grew up female. One of us knew him as a girl so they do find it a bit hard not to use her original name. I seem to manage ok. S/he has short hair and wear guy's clothes and is not obviously male or female - could be either so I always use their male name and never say 'She' is here like the others sometimes do. I think us oldies find it harder than children to be honest.

The thing is, use of ‘incorrect / inconsistent’ titles has been common forever. Unmarried senior housekeepers in stately homes : Mrs even if unmarried. Female teachers: Miss (even if married) or Madam (even if unmarried). Unmarried mothers calling themselves Mrs to avoid stigma. Consultants weirdly swap from Mr to Dr back to Mr. Lots of conventions about addressing a vicar by post as Rev X (or Father X) but in person as Mr (or vice versa). Esquire after a name not Mr before it.

In this context, I cannot get worked up about someone who -politely - asks to be called a less-usual but officially listed (it’s been on forms for years) option. I can no more get excited about someone who wishes for their sex or gender to be undetectable from their title than I could when women in my childhood chose to be Ms because they felt that they should have the right that men have for their marital status to be unknown.

I am lucky in that I have a perfectly societally-acceptable ‘formal’ title that is sex, gender and marital status neutral, and I sometimes choose to use it in that way. I cannot criticise someone without my luck who decides they want the same right.

But it is new that we are being asked - no, told - to call the men who want to be women "women", and vice versa, thus destroying the meaning of a word that identifies half of humanity and, in whatever language, has proved rather useful for thousands of years.

Time for you to stop being so condescending and recognise the validity of others' opinions.

Female teachers who go by either Mrs or Ms would be correcting pupils all day long if they picked up on every time they were called Miss - I'm sure most of them don't, as they'd rather be teaching.

oh this gets me angry. I understand transgender people choosing to change gender but I will never understand people who claim to not have a gender??

My son is 5 and as he is autistic, he is currently going through the process of an EHCP at school. I recieved documents that HE had to fill out and it stated ‘what is your gender?’ and ‘what pronouns do you go by?’. He’s 5 ffs, if he was any older they would have told him to fill it out himself and I’d be queried with ‘what’s a pronoun’. I’m so sick of children being forced with these matters, they’re children - unless they express things themselves they shouldn’t know. I’m so sick of a small minority of peoples ‘beliefs’ are being forced upon everyone else.

But saying "here miss" is not using a title. No-one would say "here Mrs" or "here Ms" or "here Mr". Presumably the school asks children to address males as "sir" and females as "miss". The teacher is a female.

But your opinion is misguided, based on lack of understanding of human diversity, and simplisms that don’t fit reality. Furthermore your ideas are harmful and discriminatory.

You are not mother superior or a doctor.

The teacher is non binary. That's the difference. And you know that.

If your name was Jane but you told me you wanted me to call you Sarah, I would call you Sarah because it is basic manners. If you said please stop calling me Julie and I persisted in calling you Julie, then that is rude and has no purpose other than to offend you or make a point. Which is what all these angry "ThE gEnDeRiStS aRe CoMpElLiNg Me!!" People are doing.

Yes, let’s play Buzzword Bingo!

Of course, you are the arbiter of misguidedness, understanding of human diversity, reality, and what is harmful or discriminatory. It must be really frustrating for you that people fail to appreciate that you are Right and anyone who dares to disagree with you is Wrong…

Tandora, your opinion is based on your own ideological beliefs.

There are only 2 sexes and everything else is simply undeterminable personality traits.

What is harmful is an ideology that asks children to lie about the truth. What is harmful is the removal of the right of female children to say no to males who have self determined that they have a 'woman / girl' gender.

What is also harmful is an ideology that actively encourages vulnerable children to believe that if they perceive that their healthy bodies do not match their personalities and that the correct response to that is to block puberty, breast bind and / or go on pathways to remove healthy body tissues and that the appropriate response to being told No to that is that they should want to kill themselves.

You can do one with any notion that people who object to children being forced to go along with your ideology are the 'harmful and discriminatory' ones. That ship has sailed with the evidence that is there for all to see of the harms that this, in fact, has had on people.

Im not the arbiter of that at all.

I just happen to be informed on the subject and understand what the facts are and also what discrimination looks like.

Tandora, your opinion is based on your own ideological beliefs

it’s based on years of scientific research, work with different communities and critical thought and self reflection.

I recommend it- better than spouting out simplisms and getting angry when human diversity doesn’t reflect those. .

I have asked you upthread to explain what non - binary actually is.

And why if sex and gender is different your ideology demands that we treat those males who claim woman gender as though they are the sex of female for the purpose of single sex spaces when women need single sex (not single gender) spaces for dignity and space?

Also why if sex and gender are different is the 'correct' response to gender questioning individuals to modify their bodies to take on the appearance of the opposite sex.

Your ideology makes no logical sense. Its just a set of unreasonable demands based upon personality traits.

Oh yes your mythical PHD. I'd forgotten. Forget what you know to be true people. Tandora has come to tell us that we should treat all males as they wish to be treated. Or we are bigots.

There you go again with the condescension.

Some news for you: other people are also "informed on the subject and understand what the facts are", but still disagree with you.