To say something now or leave it to see if I hear from the school - DD misgendered a teacher

[EvilsElsasPetSnowman]

DD is 11 in year 7. She had a non-binary teacher who she has to refer to as ‘Mx Surname’ (pronounced Mix). When she started she said “It’s obvious she’s a woman as she has boobs and a woman’s voice” but that they were told they must only refer to her as Mx. She thought it was a load of nonsense (as do I) but I told her that it’s best not to ruffle feathers and just go along with it because I don’t want her to be in trouble but I thought I’d have to keep a beady eye out for any problems.

On Friday afternoon she came back from school panicking because she accidentally called this teacher Miss when doing the register. They have to say “Here Mx” when their names are called and she said “Here Miss”. The teacher said “Really DDName, I have been your teacher for 12 weeks now, you know my pronouns!” And moved on. DD said she (DD) went bright red and felt embarrassed.

I have gone back and forth over the weekend, I’m really torn between saying something and leaving it because I don’t want DD to be a target because I’ve pissed a teacher off, or just be labelled a horrible bigot (let’s face it school will not see my POV). It’s a subject she absolutely adores as well so I don’t want her to have any backlash because she struggles with certain subjects and so lives for the few she enjoys including this one.

So Im wondering if I should email the school saying children should not be shamed for “misgendering”, this person is an adult and should be a bit more resilient and not expect children to put aide their subconscious and shirk reality, or should I wait to see if there’s any backlash before doing that? Obviously if there is I’ll defend DD to the hilt but I am thinking about getting ahead of the game as the whole thing really pisses me off.

YABU = say something now
YANBU = wait it out

Exactly, I was definitely aware of Mx being a title when I was at school in the 80s/90s.
Surprised so many claim to never have heard of it.

I think if you’re worried about not making your child a target of this teacher, it’s weird that you planned to send an email which was pretty confrontational and dismissive - which would obv be inflammatory to the situation and not endear either of you to them

This is my feeling too.. your dd is going to come across lots of different people in her life that she needs to be able to get along with. She doesn't need to agree with all of them on everything but she does need to be able to be respectful of different views and to acknowledge it if she gets that wrong.

I don't think the teacher has done anything wrong to be honest, dd made a public error and the teacher corrected her in what I feel is an appropriate way. No different than correcting Miss or Mrs or Ms in my mind.

I think you're making this a much bigger deal than it needs to be and I can't see how that's helpful to your child in any way.

The teacher hasn't made any comments about misgendering - that's all coming from you from your comments op. I'm also curious what other comments your dd has been exposed to at home that she's coming home 'panicked' about this given that the teacher gently corrected and then immediately moved on.

Total non issue to my mind.

@TofuTart I'm in my 30s and I've never heard "mix". Ms, Miss, Mrs. It's a made up term that's utter bollocks.

but she does need to be able to be respectful of different views and to acknowledge it if she gets that wrong.

No there is no obligation on any person, child or otherwise, to have their speech compelled because another person holds a different belief system.

We need to teach our children to be honest about what they see with their eyes and ears and not to have to lie to appease another person.

This is basic boundaries and is essential to child safeguarding.

What nonsense.

Why do you think there would be any change in how your dd is treated?

You say you're not bigoted but you're also assuming this teacher is going to have a massive overreaction to a non issue because its something that's very much on YOUR radar. To me that is kind of bigoted.

“The teacher said “Really DDName, I have been your teacher for 12 weeks now, you know my pronouns!” And moved on”
Why do you describe this as “shaming” your daughter? Sounds like a quick and fairly polite reminder to me. Unless she was aggressively shouting it at her but I’m sure you’d have mentioned that, you just wrote that she “said” it.

On the point of compelling children to go along with pronouns/ teachers gender beliefs. How far should this go?

If Sir now decides that he is Miss and is responsible for a child's residential should 'she' be the resident teacher in the girls dorm?

Would you encourage your child to go along with that?

It's a massive safeguarding failure to encourage children to lie about what they know to be true.

What utter nonsense. Of course we all need to be able to respect that people have different opinions than us. It doesn't mean you can't still believe x y z, but you recognise that someone else believes differently and is still deserving of respect. Same goes for religion and politics and other topics that tend to get divisive. It goes for all issues in life - its how we get on with others and realistically we do need to be able to get on with others. Teaching children that their opinion is the only correct opinion and therefore they don't need to show others respect if that person thinks differently will not serve them well in life if they can't work with others.

Because it is an aggressive tone. The person could have simply said “it’s mx, thank you.”

No it's not utter bollocks at all.

Children shouldn't be forced to lie.

It's a massive safeguarding failure. A teacher who requires a child to go along with their belief system should not be teaching. It wouldn't be allowed with any other form of belief or opinion so it shouldn't be with gender.

You can respect your teacher's right to believe that they are Mix. But no child should be required as a prop to validate that belief. It is easy to avoid. Use a register and ask a child to say Here or Present. All pronouns/ gendered language can be avoided. Job done.

If you don't believe me, check out the Department of Education Guidance. They don't think any teacher or child should be compelled to used preferred pronouns either.

educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2023/12/19/gender-questioning-children-guidance-schools-colleges/

I disagree that the tone is aggressive. No more than your example. It’s not “shaming”.

Mx, Miss, Sir aren't pronouns anyway!

the teacher needs to see this 😂

Just leave it. Your daughter could have 6 more years of high school to go ...

It doesn’t matter what YOU agree or not. You are not the child.

Sounds like a genuine mistake to me miss and mix are similar and when kids are tired, not really paying attention or thinking it is probably easily done. We are all so used to saying he/she, miss/Mr that it will take a while to get used to and im sure others will accidentally say it on occasion. Its different if she was being defiant I dont believe she was.

No child would say ‘here Mrs’ would they? Why can’t it be just ‘teacher’ if they must insist on titles ‘Here teacher’. Nobody in the workplace is using titles to address colleagues, so why should a child be corrected so publicly for this error, according to the teachers own personal belief system? Pick your battles though OP, as I’m guessing this might not be the last you’ll hear from this particular teacher…

Oh come on! Both at school and at work we have our speech "compelled" to meet certain standards of courtesy otherwise we are in great trouble. Ok you don't like being compelled to use terms related to gender, but there are a thousand other comments, insults and swearwords you wouldn't get away with at school or work. Try saying your boss is fat, even if it's true, or your headmaster is stupid, as many seem to be.

Why should a child be in 'great trouble' for not complying with gender ideology?

It is reasonable and legal to hold gender critical beliefs. Even the Department of Education won't compel teachers or children to use preferred pronouns.

It is basic safeguarding that children need to be truthful about what they see, what this is asking children to do is lie. It is also entirely unnecessary in the context of a register. The child could just say ' here' when their name is called there is simply no need for the teacher's identify to be validated in the way this teacher requires.

This is not about a child not being unnecessarily rude about another person it is about them being compelled to use language to prop up a harmful belief system.

Absolutely this. Kids have enough to be dealing with. I worry about where this is all heading.

And do they have to be truthful when they see the headmaster is fat, or another child is of limited intellect?

That's not comparable though is it?

In the scenario of the child being asked to call a teacher Mix they are being asked to lie as they can see and know that the teacher is female and the correct language is Miss. There is no need at all for this lie as the same can be achieved by the register requirement being that they just say 'here' not being required to use the validating Mix in the first place.

In your example, it might well be that the headteacher is fat or a child is of limited intellect and a neurotypical child will easily learn that it is best to be well mannered. But they are not being compelled to state the alternative. The correct comparison would be that they are being required to say but Head master you are so lean everytime they see him which is frankly as ridiculous as this teacher requiring every child to call her Mix every time she calls the register!

If they were being required to say the headmaster is slim, or that the other child is very smart - repeatedly - then yes.

What if adults believe allowing non-white immigrants is a "harmful belief system"? Are the children to be weaponised to insult their classmates? There is no unanimity about gender in society. I actually agree with a lot of what you say, but I don't think school is the place to say it.