To say something now or leave it to see if I hear from the school - DD misgendered a teacher

[EvilsElsasPetSnowman]

DD is 11 in year 7. She had a non-binary teacher who she has to refer to as ‘Mx Surname’ (pronounced Mix). When she started she said “It’s obvious she’s a woman as she has boobs and a woman’s voice” but that they were told they must only refer to her as Mx. She thought it was a load of nonsense (as do I) but I told her that it’s best not to ruffle feathers and just go along with it because I don’t want her to be in trouble but I thought I’d have to keep a beady eye out for any problems.

On Friday afternoon she came back from school panicking because she accidentally called this teacher Miss when doing the register. They have to say “Here Mx” when their names are called and she said “Here Miss”. The teacher said “Really DDName, I have been your teacher for 12 weeks now, you know my pronouns!” And moved on. DD said she (DD) went bright red and felt embarrassed.

I have gone back and forth over the weekend, I’m really torn between saying something and leaving it because I don’t want DD to be a target because I’ve pissed a teacher off, or just be labelled a horrible bigot (let’s face it school will not see my POV). It’s a subject she absolutely adores as well so I don’t want her to have any backlash because she struggles with certain subjects and so lives for the few she enjoys including this one.

So Im wondering if I should email the school saying children should not be shamed for “misgendering”, this person is an adult and should be a bit more resilient and not expect children to put aide their subconscious and shirk reality, or should I wait to see if there’s any backlash before doing that? Obviously if there is I’ll defend DD to the hilt but I am thinking about getting ahead of the game as the whole thing really pisses me off.

YABU = say something now
YANBU = wait it out

No one used “Ms” when I was a child. I somehow managed to overcome the trauma of being “forced” to learn a new title.

Yeh and is that “compelling speech” 🤣

Nothing disrespectful in calling her Miss or Mrs. As various teachers here have asserted, they don't get arsy with students if they get those muddled.

And if you think the concept of compelled speech is laughable, go and read George Orwell's 1984, or do some research on Stalin or Chairman Mao's or Kim Jong-Un's use of it.

No, that’s not what I mean. Because she hasn’t been asked to lie. As any fool could see.

Nothing disrespectful in calling her Miss or Mrs

well obviously I disagree with you on that.

But regardless, is asking children to call their teachers Miss or Mrs “compelling speech” and a terrible horror? Obviously not. This has nothing to do with your outrage over “compelled speech” and everything to do with your outrage about trans people. 🙄

It was only yesterday I read a post asking why anxiety is increasing in adolescents. A child referred to their teacher by the incorrect pronoun and was corrected in front of the class. They were made to feel uncomfortable. That feeling stays with you, we all make mistakes but at such a young age to be called out publicly changes you. In my opinion this teacher was wrong to do that.

Glad you did.

But that was so women, one half of the planet, could be identified by a title that did not specify whether they were married or not.

It was not so a tiny pocket of individuals with gender identity issues could have their own new title - while three titles already exist.

I think there are different issues here.

I think you're already feeling prickly about it OP as you're not onboard with gender ideology, and to be fair I would feel the same! Also I agree the teacher was overly picky about it.

However, teachers can be overly picky about all sorts of things, and sometimes it's not entirely fair, and on top of this, 11 year olds can easily feel humiliated by a small slight or telling off.

I wouldn't personally go to the school about it. I would reassure your DD at home that it was a small mistake and just not to worry about it. You can agree with your kid that a teacher dealt with something badly or that something wasn't entirely fair, without always going to the school. Sometimes that's just life.

I would save your "contacting the school" points for dealing with friendship issues which is a bigger issue I think - hope things improve for your dd.

This.

I would wait. I would feel embarrassed as Head to have to intervene in this, especially as it sounds like a slip up rather than deliberate.

This. And Mx is just the tip of terrifying iceberg. Radicalised activist teachers are encouraging vulnerable young people down paths that can lead to lifelong physical and mental healthy issues. It's a bit like a teacher asking to be referred to as Fuhrer: it indicates something about them.

Listen to the Julie in Genderland podcasts as Julie Bindel talks to parents whose children have been encouraged by schools and 'experts' to believe they're transgender:
podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/julie-in-genderland/id1767562982?i=1000669070624

That's a good point.

I studied Russian as part of my degree and recall when Soviets were only allowed to use the equivalent of "Mr, Mrs and Miss" with foreigners.

You only used "Comrade" with party members. If you didn't know someone's name, then you used "Citizen/ess", but pupils and students were expected to use Forename plus Patronymic for teachers and lecturers. It was, however, acceptable to refer to an unknown young man as "Young person!" and an unknown young woman as "Girl!"

One thing I'd ask the school would be if this error has been officially recorded? And if so, details of that.

BUT..if FEELINGS are what matters here to the teacher, as opposed to hard facts, aren’t my DD’s feelings (as opposed to hard facts) also valid?

Pah, get you and your sensible view!

The teacher sounds like someone my son had, called Mx Schnixel (or similar - I cant remember how to write their name) If the kids got it wrong - immediate detention. How on earth does a kid say that name quickly when they need help? Of course, mispronouncing the name happened plenty of times in the classes. I worked in their classes sometimes so saw it happen a lot.

I point blank refused to allow my son to do a detention over this when it happened.

The teacher lasted 2 terms

She has actually. She's being forced to call an observably biological woman, a new title that identifies her as different from a woman, and essentially not a woman. When she is, in fact, a woman.

Hence the lie.

Kids got both my maiden name and married name wrong all the time.

DH was also a teacher. In the evening, we'd have a laugh over the latest mangling of the surname. (My maiden name was Eastern European; my married name is Scottish, but not common in the central belt.)

The teacher didn't shame DD though, they just corrected her.

It would be the same if she pronounced the name wrong or said miss instead of Mrs.

The teacher needs to get their priorities straight. It sounds like an honest mistake. I'm a 5ft nothing female secondary teacher and I've been called Dad, Sir, or a siblings name in the past. The funniest was when one lad called out 'Oh Mum, just shush will you!'. We all had a laugh and carried on.

It sounds like the teacher has a sensitivity round the topic and as long as it wasn't a deliberate act to be rude I would expect nothing more to be done. An honest discussion with the school and how they would approach the subject of gender and identity might be needed if they go down the punishment route with daughter - not all guns blazing but a frank discussion on how to navigate it if you get my drift.

Your daughter was merely picked up on it, hardly ‘shamed’. Much as I might inwardly roll my eyes about twatty pronouns like Mix, I’d still use them if required.

I’d move on if I were you.

Agree with this.

What she said and how she expressed it was exasperated and lecture-y and with a clear & distinct "you should know better" element ....so definitely shaming.

Not just neutral correction.

This.

she’s a woman who can use whatever pronouns she wants for herself but she can’t force other people to indulge her in her delusions.

Well she wasn't wrong, no. But that's not the point. She had a slip of the tongue & instead of the teacher moving on, she humiliated the DD. As a teacher that's not on.

And this is the thing. I am not Catholic, nor Church of England either. I would have no idea what I should be calling someone and it is not relevant to me to learn so that I fulfil be someone else's concept of respectful.

That question as asked by that poster really shines a light on the issue quite clearly, although not in the way they expect.

Which religions and philosophical beliefs have been deemed to be on the 'must respect' list? Which religions have not?

I don't call someone Father except my own father. I would have definitely backed that friend of yours.

Titles no related to profession or position in society were there to distinguish between male and female people. I am quite stunned by the number of posters who have stated they personally get upset at being called the wrong title as if it is a sign of disrespect.

But I am really finding it interesting to see just how many posters seem to think that a person demanding a title that only relevant to that person's personal philosophical belief about gender identities should be given such respect that children should be shamed for getting that title wrong.

Yes, and compelled speech also includes the things you're not allowed to say. You would have been compelled to say 'Stalin is our hero and the kindly father of the nation' and compelled on pain of death not to say "Stalin's a psychopathic totalitarian dictator.' The OP's child is compelled to use Mx and not allowed to say 'You're clearly female and you subscribe to the cult-like belief of gender ideology, a belief I don't share and don't want to participate in.'

It's only a couple of years since Murray Allen was expelled from school for politely telling a teacher that there were only two genders:

She has actually. She's being forced to call an observably biological woman, a new title that identifies her as different from a woman, and essentially not a woman. When she is, in fact, a woman.

The origins of Mx are really that from around 50 years ago, people - mainly women - wanted a title that didn't reveal their sex, rather than that they were pretending to be sexless. There's a genuine feminist argument in favour of a neutral title (if any is needed at all). So I don't think the title itself is a lie any more than other neutrals like Rev or Dr are.