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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say something now or leave it to see if I hear from the school - DD misgendered a teacher

1000 replies

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 02/12/2024 10:51

DD is 11 in year 7. She had a non-binary teacher who she has to refer to as ‘Mx Surname’ (pronounced Mix). When she started she said “It’s obvious she’s a woman as she has boobs and a woman’s voice” but that they were told they must only refer to her as Mx. She thought it was a load of nonsense (as do I) but I told her that it’s best not to ruffle feathers and just go along with it because I don’t want her to be in trouble but I thought I’d have to keep a beady eye out for any problems.

On Friday afternoon she came back from school panicking because she accidentally called this teacher Miss when doing the register. They have to say “Here Mx” when their names are called and she said “Here Miss”. The teacher said “Really DDName, I have been your teacher for 12 weeks now, you know my pronouns!” And moved on. DD said she (DD) went bright red and felt embarrassed.

I have gone back and forth over the weekend, I’m really torn between saying something and leaving it because I don’t want DD to be a target because I’ve pissed a teacher off, or just be labelled a horrible bigot (let’s face it school will not see my POV). It’s a subject she absolutely adores as well so I don’t want her to have any backlash because she struggles with certain subjects and so lives for the few she enjoys including this one.

So Im wondering if I should email the school saying children should not be shamed for “misgendering”, this person is an adult and should be a bit more resilient and not expect children to put aide their subconscious and shirk reality, or should I wait to see if there’s any backlash before doing that? Obviously if there is I’ll defend DD to the hilt but I am thinking about getting ahead of the game as the whole thing really pisses me off.

YABU = say something now
YANBU = wait it out

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
AlexP24 · 02/12/2024 13:29

Bromptotoo · 02/12/2024 13:15

YABU.

Would you have made a fuss 40 years ago when Ms began to be used?

It is completely different. The teacher telling the child that they are non binary, asking to be referred to with gender neutral pronouns, pulling students up when they get it wrong, is perpetuating a lie. It is legitimizing the lie that someone can be the opposite sex, or no sex, simply by stating it to be so. It trains society - and our most vulnerable, children - to accept lies and woe betide they refuse to. I would go so far as to say that forcing children to use pronouns with do not correlate to someone's sex is a form of abuse and can lead to serious safeguarding issues. We must be allowed to tell the truth - we must demand the right to tell the truth as we see it.

SnoopySantaPaws · 02/12/2024 13:30

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 02/12/2024 12:12

See I don’t think you’re right about her needing to do this into old age. It’s a very much Gen Z thing whereas my DD and her peers (Gen Alpha I believe) are starting to push back on this. Not just DD but a lot of young people I know now. Everything comes full circle and I don’t think these mad id entity politics are here to stay.

Really? I SO hope you're right about that!!

ThatGreatMember · 02/12/2024 13:30

TofuTart · 02/12/2024 11:05

Seriously? Mx has been around for absolute years!

Never heard it before but then I hang out with normal ppl

2Sensitive · 02/12/2024 13:31

I call my son my daughters name and my daughter my sons name by mistake, they don't get all precious about it.

Make the complaint- can't be bothered with precious people in this hard life.

SuperfluousHen · 02/12/2024 13:31

Lovemybunnies · 02/12/2024 12:53

The teacher should have been a grown up and spoken to your DD separately.

Or, even better, let it go entirely.

lifeturnsonadime · 02/12/2024 13:31

allthatfalafel · 02/12/2024 13:26

it's like someone has offered you a mini snickers bar and your refusal has been a lecture on the slave trade.

i don't know how you live your life, more leaps than an Olympic high jumper. it must be exhausting to be so angry all the time.

Edited

And in the meantime your denial of reality knows no bounds...

But I guess that IS par for the course for gender believers.

2Sensitive · 02/12/2024 13:31

@Dooooooogle
Is the teacher

Cattery · 02/12/2024 13:32

OctopusFriend · 02/12/2024 13:29

It doesn't, really. Have no fear!

Kids are in school to learn not to sit shitting themselves about accidentally misgendering a teacher. wtf has it all come to

Catza · 02/12/2024 13:32

SnoopySantaPaws · 02/12/2024 13:12

But that's NOT what she did!!

It is literally what she did. She assumed the daughter will be disadvantaged in her class following the exchange and then said "Im wondering if I should email the school saying children should not be shamed for “misgendering”, this person is an adult and should be a bit more resilient and not expect children to put aide their subconscious and shirk reality, or should I wait to see if there’s any backlash before doing that? Obviously if there is I’ll defend DD to the hilt but I am thinking about getting ahead of the game"

MrBungle · 02/12/2024 13:33

Nobody can compel your speech. It is absolutely against your rights to force you to believe that non binary people exist. They do not, there are only two sexes, never any mix of the two.

Oreosareawful · 02/12/2024 13:33

Lemonadeand · 02/12/2024 13:19

Tell her whenever she looks at that teacher, to think, “that is a MIXED up person”. Then she is less likely to slip up.

Genius!

2Sensitive · 02/12/2024 13:33

@LostTheMarble

100% this
*
*
It’s not disrespectful. What the teacher is doing is the equivalent of expecting the students to recite a prayer of their religion every time they enter the classroom. The teacher is female, and whilst they choose to live by a different belief system, they cannot expect others to follow suit. If a student doesn’t fall in line to use the pronoun of a belief system, it’s has no implications on the child they’re teaching.

StrawberryDream24 · 02/12/2024 13:34

Dooooooogle · 02/12/2024 10:54

You’re being massively unreasonable in not respecting this person. If they want to be Mix that’s their choice. Your DD should call them that. Getting it wrong once or twice is normal, but deliberately snubbing the choice is not kind.

I’d leave it. But stop telling DD at home that you think it’s ridiculous. It’s truly none of your business and saying Mx, as requested, is a respectful thing to do.

Pmsl.

What a farce.

What an insane period of history this will be looked back on as.

Like one of the periods of religious zealousness perhaps.

YellowAsteroid · 02/12/2024 13:34

I totally agree with you about the teacher’s unreasonableness and snowflakes. She is requiring the children to lie, basically, about what they see in front of them. Teaching is about the children, not the teacher.

But I’d hold my fire for now. I’d raise it at a parents’ evening or via the PTA. The school is requiring pupils to participate in a potentially harmful social practice and a set of beliefs which are highly contentious and political. According to the Cass report, social transition is not neutral. Pupils are being put in a position of fear for acknowledging the evidence of their own eyes of biological reality.

Is there a parents’ group for your daughter’s year group? Do you have parent friends at the school? You can’t be the only one concerned about the effect on the children and this teacher’s demands that they participate in her fictional identity.

MrBungle · 02/12/2024 13:34

Cattery · 02/12/2024 13:32

Kids are in school to learn not to sit shitting themselves about accidentally misgendering a teacher. wtf has it all come to

It's come to a climate of fear and self censorship - thats what has happened.

This is very clearly illegal, you cannot compel someone to say up is down.

AlexP24 · 02/12/2024 13:34

allthatfalafel · 02/12/2024 13:22

My year 6 teacher was a Ms. This was the 1990s.

She was annoyed when anyone called her Mrs, as she was well within her rights to be.

People have the right to be called what they like and correct people who are not doing that.

If you email the school to say, "my daughter was corrected on something she got incorrect so I'm complaining about it" you're going to look pathetic.

And people have the right to state biological reality.

SnoopySantaPaws · 02/12/2024 13:34

Wherethewildthingsfart · 02/12/2024 12:16

The teacher said “Really DDName, I have been your teacher for 12 weeks now, you know my pronouns!” And moved on.

She called her by the wrong name, teacher addressed it and moved on. I think that you also need to move on.

You really think how the teacher addressed it was necessary?

MrBungle · 02/12/2024 13:35

Incidentally - is this Brighton?

Justwant2sit · 02/12/2024 13:35

I would speak out now.
loudly - strongly - determinedly - and ask my child to be the focus here.
if the teacher can not cope with miss/ns/mrs they are in the wrong role ( wait till they hear what they are called in the playground) . how many mums dads loves etc get dropped inadvertently at school by teaches and pupils . It’s life. It is not offensive. Move on.

Your child can not elect to be chosen to be called her royal highness of Elsa’s evil snowman no more than you can be the right honourable lord Elsa.

mr x and some mumble of sounds approximating to mrs ms miss x will do.
Polite - clear - standard - equal for all.
mx is one for the mix the kids don’t need .

mr X or mzzz X teacher should grow up and focus on teaching.

can’t agree this with the teacher/school… Well let child call the teacher Smith and the teacher can call your child Jones.
just the Family name - non personalized in any way. Offence free. That’s all I’d offer .

StrawberryDream24 · 02/12/2024 13:36

AlexP24 · 02/12/2024 13:29

It is completely different. The teacher telling the child that they are non binary, asking to be referred to with gender neutral pronouns, pulling students up when they get it wrong, is perpetuating a lie. It is legitimizing the lie that someone can be the opposite sex, or no sex, simply by stating it to be so. It trains society - and our most vulnerable, children - to accept lies and woe betide they refuse to. I would go so far as to say that forcing children to use pronouns with do not correlate to someone's sex is a form of abuse and can lead to serious safeguarding issues. We must be allowed to tell the truth - we must demand the right to tell the truth as we see it.

Excellent post.

SnoopySantaPaws · 02/12/2024 13:37

5128gap · 02/12/2024 12:17

I personally doubt that this generation of children will grow up in a world where GI has gained traction and become the norm. I think there are clear signs that the trend has peaked and is now on its way out. Certainly in my 'progressive' sector its becoming less and less a thing. At a recent conference there was no round the room pronoun sharing this year, and the name badges no longer had 'my pronouns are'. I have only one colleague who's pronouns are on his email signature now, and those are the ones one would expect for his sex. I know more de transitioned young people than trans ones.
So, given this doesn't appear to have been the dawn of a new age, but rather a quite niche belief that gained initial interest, but is now losing buy in, I think its far more important to encourage children to think critically and decide for themselves what they believe, rather than train them in preparation a world that some would prefer, but is looking increasingly unlikely to materialise.

I hope you are right!!

MrBungle · 02/12/2024 13:38

@EvilsElsasPetSnowman - here is a letter to send to the head... adjust as you need...

Subject: Concern Regarding Treatment of Students in Relation to Pronoun Usage

Dear [Headteacher’s Name or “Sir/Madam”],

I am writing to raise a concern about an incident involving my daughter, [Child’s Full Name], a Year 7 student at [School Name]. It relates to her interaction with a teacher who requests to be referred to as “Mx [Surname]” and how she was addressed following an accidental slip during a recent lesson.

On [date of incident], my daughter accidentally referred to this teacher as “Miss” instead of “Mx” during roll call. She was publicly corrected in a manner that left her embarrassed and self-conscious, with the teacher saying, “Really, [Child’s Name], I have been your teacher for 12 weeks now, you know my pronouns!”

While I respect the school’s efforts to create an inclusive environment for all staff and students, I must express my concern that my daughter—and, by extension, other students—should not be shamed or chastised for an honest mistake, especially when navigating relatively new and contentious social concepts such as gender identity.

I would like to highlight the following key points:
1. Freedom of Belief and Expression: Neither my daughter nor any student should feel compelled to act or speak in a way that contradicts their personal beliefs or understanding of reality. Many people, including children, do not adhere to or believe in the concept of gender identity. Forcing or shaming them into compliance is not only unfair but may infringe upon their right to freedom of thought and expression under the Human Rights Act.
2. Protection from Public Embarrassment: Regardless of the teacher’s preferences, children should not be publicly shamed for their language, particularly when the error is unintentional. Teachers are adults and should model resilience, especially when engaging with children who are still developing socially and emotionally.
3. Safeguarding a Positive Learning Environment: My daughter loves this subject and looks forward to her lessons, but this experience has caused unnecessary anxiety. No child should feel uncomfortable or fearful about participating in class due to the possibility of making a simple mistake.

I kindly request the school to:
• Confirm its policy on how staff members may address students in situations involving pronoun use.
• Reassure me that students will not be shamed or reprimanded for using language consistent with their beliefs or for making honest mistakes in such scenarios.
• Clarify how the school ensures that the classroom environment remains a safe and inclusive space for all students, including those who may not share the same views on gender identity.

I trust the school values open dialogue and appreciates that this is a sensitive issue requiring a balanced approach. I look forward to your response and hope we can work together to ensure all students feel supported and respected in their learning environment.

Thank you for your time and understanding.

Yours sincerely,
[Your Full Name]
[Your Contact Information]

Cattery · 02/12/2024 13:38

MrBungle · 02/12/2024 13:34

It's come to a climate of fear and self censorship - thats what has happened.

This is very clearly illegal, you cannot compel someone to say up is down.

Absolutely. Just get on with the process of teaching rather forcing uncomfortable tip toeing round one person’s view of themselves. Do what you like out of work but don’t force your preferences on school kids

sunshine244 · 02/12/2024 13:40

I personally find the gender neutral pronouns really hard, much more so than transgender people.

There's a child in our school who is a 'they'. It's not easy to remember because they don't look any different from any of the girls. I do my best but I trip over it all the time even though it's been a year. Not helped that when I first spoke to the parent I assumed 'they' referred to more than one child and I got totally confused.

Leafstamp · 02/12/2024 13:40

Personally, I would be saying something asap, and more than that I would be using it to start a conversation with the school about how they are dealing with trans ideology more generally. Are they facilitating the transition of children? Are they aware of the Cass Report and KCSIE updates? Of political impartiality as required by the Education Act?

Genderwoo is dangerous nonsense and needs to get out of schools.

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