to say no more DC - occasional verbal abuse from DH

[climbelon]

DH and I have 1 DS, age 2. There have been around 10 instances of verbal abuse since DS was born. (Thank you to a poster on a thread a few days ago who linked to a free PDF of Why Does He Do That - I am less than halfway through and already it has been very enlightening.)

There is no physical violence and I do not feel afraid or like I am walking on eggshells.

DH agreed (my idea) would pursue counselling after the last instance. The conversation in which this was agreed felt like a step forward to change. He had various reasons not to pursue free avenues and was too overwhelmed with choice of private practitioners to choose.
I told my friend that he was going to try counselling (not about the abuse). He was upset I shared this and as a result said he will no longer go to counselling. I waited it out as he often says things he doesn't mean when he's angry. Nothing further was mentioned.

A few weeks later I came to the conclusion that we should not have another child while I don't know that this abuse won't continue and/or escalate over time. While I love the idea of DS having a sibling, and I have leaned on my own siblings for support and validation managing the relationship with our abusive DM, it does not feel fair to have another DC, on me or the potential DC, and I guess would make it harder to leave if it comes to this.

The evening of this realisation, DH could see something was wrong. I told him I was upset he wasn't pursuing counselling and that it doesn't feel he is taking how he has spoken to me seriously. He minimised it, saying it's not a big deal, it only happened 3 or 4 times when he was stressed at work. (It has been more like 10 and the first time was while he was on pat leave.)

I also said that I don't think it's a good idea to have another DC. He said he doesn't want one anyway and called me manipulative for saying I wouldn't have another DC unless he gets counselling (which is not what I said). He went to sleep in the spare room as he was 'stressed' and we haven't spoken about it since.

Outside of these incidents, DH is a wonderful husband and father and speaks to me respectfully, if critically at times. However I cannot overlook the 0.1% of the time he is verbally abusive, nor his minimisation or 'are you STILL upset' when I'm not over it.

AIBU to rule out more children?

Of course. Nothing wrong with him. All wrong with you.

You’re doing the right things @climbelon

This is the start of the campaign to simultaneously

• get people thinking you are out of your kind/mentally ill/toxic/abusive
• position himself as the victim

Does your sister know ehat is going on?.

Woke up at 2am. Now I have the opportunity to sleep I can't!! I am scared and angry. I should be at home with DS. After making the last year stressful in the name of doing everything best/perfectly for DS he is now refusing us what is best for him.

I couldn't get through to rights of women last night. Will try again today. Have requested an initial chat with a solicitor and speaking to my work today. I haven't heard back from the police and plan to attend a station today to report.

In reply to this. Thank you for the suggestion to attend the offices re housing, I think I will do this today too.

He spent so long arguing with me he ran out of time to commute and worked from home. After saying he couldn't go to his family member as he needed to be in the office.

We share a car. It is in my name. I couldn't find the log book when I last looked (my own disorganisation as everything else is kept together). I am going to the house with my sister in the morning to collect stuff.

I texted him I am stating with my sister and all bring DS in the morning for him to see. He replied he plans to go to the office tomorrow so evening would be better.

I texted him I am stating with my sister and all bring DS in the morning for him to see. He replied he plans to go to the office tomorrow so evening would be better.

So the moment you offer to do something he wanted, but not 100% on his terms, it’s not as urgent as he made it sound. He can wfh because he messed around until late, but he can’t to see his son. He can’t wfh so as to stay with his family, but he can wfh to allow him to wake you up and harangue you.

We share a car. It is in my name. I couldn't find the log book when I last looked (my own disorganisation as everything else is kept together)

I wouldn’t be so quick to blame yourself for the log book going missing. You can get a replacement from the DVLA but it will cost, unless it’s when you tell them your new address. Could you start that process now? Stay at your sister’s? Otherwise any fines or points will be logged to your name and it wouldn’t surprise me if they started to arrive. I hope he hasn’t sent in the new keeper slips to steal your car from you.

while you are at the house, please gather up important documents:
passport and birth certificates (yours and DS)
marriage certificate
financial documents and statements
anything allowing access if they have information contained in that paper. Stuff like your unique taxpayer reference number.

Good luck. The anger is good and useful, but it might be nice if you can do something physical to move it through and out of your body- boxing is ideal, but bashing a stick on the ground works too.

I am pleased / relieved that you will not be alone when you return to the home to collect stuff.

So he is not that bothered about seeing his child, as daytime is obiv best for child not the evening when it's bathtime/bedtime etc.

Be prepared for him to be there anyway, despite saying he won't be.
and be prepared for crying or anger or both, manipulation, following you around when you try to get things, not allowing yo to have certain items.

I hope you have a strong sister who won't take any bullshit.

I'm glad you're in a place of safety and have your sister's support.

His abusiveness becoming more and more obvious is helpful in that it enables you to feel anger and determination instead of doubt and guilt, but it must be horrible for you to watch your marriage unravel, and I really feel for you.

I can't add to the good advice you've had from pp but I'm thinking of you.

Nicey nice text this morning and he has contacted counsellors.

I want to reply something like 'then you understand you've severely breached my trust and need to leave so that I can live in the house and feel safe

Or best to ignore

Give him a 👍

My covert narcissist ex sends this all the time, never says thank you, I use his tactics on him.

In my head I'd reply "too little too late, chum" but best to ignore, I think.

In my experience, every choice he makes about what he says or does (probably always but particularly now) will be made in the presence of an imaginary audience, and he will be looking for a reaction from you too. I think it would be best to deny him the benefit of any feedback, just in case you unwittingly give him information he can use against you.

So, in the example reply you gave, you've told him directly what it is you would like as an outcome, which puts him in a position to punish you by making sure it's the last thing you get.

You have made the right decision OP. There is so much to unpick here :

Constant very low level criticism is a form of abuse. It's very difficult to call it out as abuse as you'll get accused of being too sensitive, it was only a joke, he is entitled to his opinion etc. Bur ira designed to grind people down

Shouting and swearing is abusive
Threatening to kill himself ia the highest form of manipulation
Putting it all on you (you're being manipulative by crying as you're not supposed to have emotions, you don't argue properly) is abusive, abusers always think their behaviour is the result of someone else's behaviour
Flip flopping between tactics to try and get you to stay when one doesn't work is manipulative
He doesn't want to change, counselling to change behaviour is a long hard process and you have to completely believe you need it and want to change because you know your hebahiour is wrong, not to stop someone leaving
Agree with pp this will not get better as he really doesn't think there is anything wrong (and it's not his fault because of his past gf, and its only a small proportion of the time etc)

Lastly its so common in these threads for the OP to have an abusive parent, it sadly sets off a cycle of abusive relationships and males it difficult to spot abusive behaviour. So I'd recommend counselling to get out of this cycle

Of course you have mental health problems 🙄

The go to for any man when a woman refuses to be abused.

Treat every text as proof that may be looked at by others.

He is saying he will go to counselling because abusing you didn't work.

Keeping you awake all night didn't work.
Refusing to leave your bedroom didn't work.

Now you have had to flee domestic abuse and your home because of his threats that you would never see your child again and he would self harm.

It is very important that the above is central to what you tell the police and solicitor.

After months of verbal abuse from him and when you told him the marriage was over, he threatened you with never seeing your child again, and that he would self harm.
That he wanted you to stop breastfeeding so he could take your child.

This is horrible stuff and it is crucial you make the above known to everyone you deal with.

Spell it out to them, your fear for your childs safety.

You can do this.

See a counsellor on your own
You seem to be saying if you sayno more dc it s a hold over dh?
Or do you mean you going to get out now while you only have one dc to think about?
0.1% abuse is too much.

Oh good you leaving. Stay strong.

Get out of this relationship now. If nothing else, realise that in staying, your H's dreadful behaviour is teaching your own child how to treat women. And the cycle continues. That alone would give me enough incentive to go.

@MrsMariaReynolds she's already left.

Have come home with my sister to collect stuff. He is here. He is taking the car to stay with his sister for the weekend. Wants to spend time with ds first. I have removed the car seat and my sister will stay in the lounge (exit to car) until he's gone.

He told my sister she doesn't need to stay and he doesnt want her sitting outside the room he and ds are in and ridiculed her when she said that I will feel safer with her here.

He wants access to you directly. And btw if you think he won’t manipulate your child or childcare you are wrong. It’s already started.

He wants you on your own. Don’t be.

I said he would be there.

He is taking YOUR car.

Your sister stays !

He needs to concentrate on playing with his child, and maybe changing a nappy.

so he has taken time off work for your visit or is he working from home again.

He must have taken time off work as he was not working when we arrived and claims to be leaving soon.

with him sprouting this rubbish about staying elsewhere - does this mean he is moving out and allowing you to stay in the home ?

as I suspect he will be back home on Monday then !

This is pure manipulation because he will be creating situations where he thinks you will be by yourself. He is very keen you are thinking about him all the time. Don’t expect this behaviour to change and expect him to have excuses all the time for not quite doing what he told you he would. It’s an unsubtle fuck you

@climbelon You are in a very difficult situation here. People are going to tell you he's doing all of this on purpose and it makes him a Very Bad Man. But then, you're going to see the hurt and tears in his eyes and it's going to be very confusing for you. @OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon had it 100% right when she predicted what he was going to do - so I wasn't at all surprised to see that yes, that's what he did.

Here is what I believe is happening with men like this. The behaviour is in line with covert narcissism (whether or not he is one, I couldn't say. Just these behaviours). The key, I have found, for starting to be able to manage it is to understand that at their core, their thinking is disordered. So you can be rational and calm, you can explain things in simple language.... and it will not get through because the basic assumptions that you, and people with healthy normal thought patterns, operate under, will NOT be there for him.

Concrete examples: he can send you vile texts messages threatening you, telling you how awful you are, how awful things are... and then a few hours later your head will spn as he sends you something kind, normal, loving.

This morning was another classic - "no, you can't come in the morning as I am working, it must be evening" and then he's there anyway. He doesn't see this as him being inconsistent. If anything, he will blame you, "well, you told me that you were bringing him in the morning so what was I supposed to do."

Taking your car - again, this is completely normal and standard behaviour and he's not doing it on purpose. He thinks its his RIGHT. You are causing HIM difficulties, so of course he will take the car.

People talk a lot about lack of empathy. The best way I can describe this lack of empathy in people like this is to say that they can ONLY centre themselves. So, for example, some terrible event will happen and they are upset about it... because of how it makes them feel. They are angry because you are telling them they can't do something... so they will do whatever they have to do to make their lives eaier or better, with zero ability to reflect or consider a) why you are doing/saying what you are or b) how their reactions are making things worse.

I was supposed to be working but have just typed up this very long email because I am worried for you. Please, if nothing else, listen to me when I say that attempting to ascribe rational reasoning to any of his actions is a mistake. He is not intrinsically bad or good and if you try to see him as either, you will find this impossible to navigate.

Good luck today.

Agree with pp, he is following the narcissist/abusive script. Do find your car’s logbook and take it with you. I’m so glad your sister is there because 99% I bet he would take your son away with him. It’s all about his supply of your attention. Stay strong, watch him follow the same script. If you’re married I don’t think it will matter so much which of you stays in the house, because eventually it will have to be split as an asset and arguably you’ll be safer at your sister’s as he has no right of entry (nor the means to get in).

Good luck, you’re doing so well in such challenging circumstances!