to say no more DC - occasional verbal abuse from DH

[climbelon]

DH and I have 1 DS, age 2. There have been around 10 instances of verbal abuse since DS was born. (Thank you to a poster on a thread a few days ago who linked to a free PDF of Why Does He Do That - I am less than halfway through and already it has been very enlightening.)

There is no physical violence and I do not feel afraid or like I am walking on eggshells.

DH agreed (my idea) would pursue counselling after the last instance. The conversation in which this was agreed felt like a step forward to change. He had various reasons not to pursue free avenues and was too overwhelmed with choice of private practitioners to choose.
I told my friend that he was going to try counselling (not about the abuse). He was upset I shared this and as a result said he will no longer go to counselling. I waited it out as he often says things he doesn't mean when he's angry. Nothing further was mentioned.

A few weeks later I came to the conclusion that we should not have another child while I don't know that this abuse won't continue and/or escalate over time. While I love the idea of DS having a sibling, and I have leaned on my own siblings for support and validation managing the relationship with our abusive DM, it does not feel fair to have another DC, on me or the potential DC, and I guess would make it harder to leave if it comes to this.

The evening of this realisation, DH could see something was wrong. I told him I was upset he wasn't pursuing counselling and that it doesn't feel he is taking how he has spoken to me seriously. He minimised it, saying it's not a big deal, it only happened 3 or 4 times when he was stressed at work. (It has been more like 10 and the first time was while he was on pat leave.)

I also said that I don't think it's a good idea to have another DC. He said he doesn't want one anyway and called me manipulative for saying I wouldn't have another DC unless he gets counselling (which is not what I said). He went to sleep in the spare room as he was 'stressed' and we haven't spoken about it since.

Outside of these incidents, DH is a wonderful husband and father and speaks to me respectfully, if critically at times. However I cannot overlook the 0.1% of the time he is verbally abusive, nor his minimisation or 'are you STILL upset' when I'm not over it.

AIBU to rule out more children?

He packed and left quickly. Phoned 101, officer will call in the morning to advise re next steps. I'm ok. Thank you

Edit: he's back. Didn't try to engage me, said he's going to get some sleep and will leave in the morning and go and stay with his friend.

@climbelon you can get free legal advice from barristers and solicitors here: wwwrightsofwomen.org.uk

Well done, you are so strong!

Keep your baby with you, don’t let H take him anywhere else.
Don’t pay out your savings to remortgage. You will need them for your new life.

Grey rock now: don’t get into the argument, you know what he’s like.
And the Lundy Bancroft book. Definitely a necessary read.

Make sure you spell out to 101 that he threatened to harm himself and he threatened to take your son so that you would never see either of them again.

Tell them he said you have to give up breastfeeding so that he can take your son.

Spell out that you are terrified for your child.
Play nothing down.
He has been abusing you and you are terrified of what he might do.

Tell the officer you "want to make a statement".
That will let them know that you want this all on record.
Definitely contact Women's aid too for advice.

You have got this.

Op, I'm sorry this is all escalating. It sounds like it was a tough night. I' ma little confused about some of your posts but it sounds like he just wouldn' tleave you alone all night, then was minimising the issues, then playing the victim..... it's all sadly very textbook.

Here is the thing I think is important to remember because you will feel bad for him. He IS hurting, I believe that. But that doesn't change the fact that he' snot making any real efforts to liste to you. He keeps saying he wants to talk, but when you talk, he disisses what you say. He cries and says it's not so bad instead of thinking, "but does this bother HER?".

I once heard someone on tik tok say about her abusive, narcissistic ex that she realised that the problem was that he KNEW he was hurting her, he could see her crying and begging him to stop but he didn't CARE because he BELIEVED she was wrong. That's not a normal, healthy thing and I suspect is a big part of what's happening with you.

Good luck. Go back to the earlier pages - things may ramp up now.

@climbelon I hope you called that friend last night. Been thinking of you and your little one all morning. Hope you’re ok. Time to bring in real practical help. Friends, even neighbours. I was really surprised who came out of the woodwork when I really needed help. Good luck

Yes that's exactly what happened. I haven't slept.

It's like the veil has lifted. Everything is about him. He wants to 'talk' which means persuade me that I'm wrong and to back to normal. His go to that usually works is that he has the hardest few weeks at work coming up and he needs his family's support. I'm done.

PP's advice that he won't be reasoned with and that he thinks he's in the right is really in play. He is convincing himself as well as trying to convince me.

I've told him to leave and he refuses. He originally said he would but now has excuses for why he won't. The latest is that he won't leave DS. Why should he. We have to think about DS who needs both parents and H doesn't want to be without him, can't lose him and not see him every day. I am doing a mix of grey rocking and fighting back. But I know now that I won't go back. Awaiting advice hv etc.

This is very much ramping up the abuse, you are now supposed to be worried about him committing suicide and pandering to his every whim and need and keeping yourself shut down.

Keep on keeping on make your plans to end it.

Remember to tell 101, GP, DV services about him waking you constantly during the night, refusing to leave the seperate bedroom you moved in to, refusing to allow you to sleep, badgering you that you are wrong to want to end the marriage.

This is a huge abusive tactic to deny you sleep to confuse you, and grind you down.

Please tell them everything.

Stay strong, stay strong, stay strong.

Do ring the advice line rightsofwomen, they’re qualified and can give good legal advice. And women’s aid as well.

you are doing really well.

Having read your update from the middle of the night and now, there is a knot in my stomach.

He is ramping up his manipulation !

It's a brilliant time to get into your head by waking you at night, this was a calculated move on his part.
then the phone call / crying / yes i will move out then come back !!! now he is refusing to leave.

any tears etc from him are put on, just for affect - to control and manipulate you.

KEEP your child very very very near to you !!!

Has he not gone to work today ?

I think the minute he does eventually leave the house you need to get an emergency bag ready - birth certificates/passports, bank details etc. clothing/nappies/toiletries medicines ? favourite teddy etc. buggy
anything and everything you would need for a couple of days or so.

do you drive/have your own car ? if so make sure you have both sets of keys and of course the paperwork re the car i.e. ownership/insurance

Woman's Aid can advise on emergency housing, so can domestic violence charities in your area if there is any ?

and

you can turn up at the housing department of your local authority ( there is a 24 hour service but it works ' better ' during the working day )
or any local authority !
and say you are escaping domestic abuse - his actions/behaviour/talking is abuse and they will find you somewhere safe - it may be very short term until they place you somewhere ' better ' / more suitable

but they can and will find you somewhere for right now.

Get a lock for the door of the room that you and DS sleep in, or at the very least a wedge to delay him getting in. Have your phone charged and beside you at night. I'm sorry to say OP, but the chances of him escalating are really high as he realises you are no longer under his control.

What is the reason for this? I have a big knot in my stomach like PP when I'm there so starting to think I need to stay elsewhere with DS if he continues to refuse to go.

He phoned my sister earlier, saying I have asked him to leave for a few days and can she check I'm OK during this time. Looking like the good caring husband/making it look like this is just a product of mental illness??

Yes he will say he is “concerned for you”. Assume he is visiting friends and family, presenting your situation as if you are mentally ill and won’t let him have the children, and he’s worried.

He is lying his arse off and you need friends right now

Don't listen to me if other people have more knowledgeable opinions, but personally I wouldn't worry about staying in the house, whereas I really would worry about safeguarding yourself and your DS, as your DH sounds capable of erratic behaviour to me. To me, the house is a marital asset and who gets to own it, live in it or benefit from the sale of it after a split is all something that can be thrashed out later, through solicitors and/or with the help of the police if necessary. In your shoes, I would be thinking more of protecting myself and DS physically and mentally.

Phoning your sister like that is shockingly manipulative. It helps in a way that his mask has really slipped fast, as you'll remember this kind of thing when you have low points and question whether you made the right decision. It's also stupidly arrogant - did he think she wouldn't mention it to you? I hope she can be an ally to you and hopefully shield you from him to some extent. I know sibling dynamics can be difficult when there's been a narcissistic parent.

She's been great. I explained everything and thinking to stay with her from tonight if I decide not to go home.

My view is stay in the house because it saves you the upheaval and stress. He probably aims to drive you out of it.

I often come in for criticism on MN because I have quite a high bar for verbal abuse vs bouts of bad temper. My parents had a marriage characterised by DV so my perception is probably skewed. But FWIW…

Swearing I can live with. I think it is relatively normal to swear in an argument IRL. Obviously on MN nobody ever swears and nor do their DH.

What is intolerable and overtly abusive is the threat of divorce and kidnapping your child. The extreme and calculated nature of this threat is designed to bring you to heel. He using a ‘weakness’ (your love for you child) to control you. That is a very uncomfortable dynamic from the man who is supposed to support and nurture the both of you.

The priority has to be to stay safe though, no? And if being safe at home can only be achieved by keeping him out (which would have to involve the police since it's his home too) or having someone there with OP and her DS at all times, then that would not only be stressful in itself but might also add fuel to whatever stories the DH is spinning about how OP is unstable/losing it and a danger to their DS.

But I admit I'm not up to speed on the legal aspects.

I am staying at my sister's. The knot in my stomach has gone. Hopefully will get some good rest tonight if DS not too unsettled.

Phoning the legal line someone has suggested when they open at 7pm (better check that!).

Thank goodness, that should mean you and baby are safe for tonight.

He was constantly waking you to abuse you.
It was a safety issue so you had to flee the house.
Language is important.

You have fled the house because of his abusive behaviour.

Tell your sister everything.

I have just rtft and oh my goodness, you've been through it the last couple of weeks.

You have some great advice from PP and we're here to listen and support you.

Sending you love and strength ❤️

What did for the end of my marriage was what h said to me. Don't under estimate the power and danger of verbal interactions. Don't let him tell you how you feel. How to feel.

Yes, this..

the usual legal (ish) advice is to stay in the house to make it easier to retain your claim on it, BUT in an abusive situation, forget it, just get to safety and sort the details later.

like any life threatening situation (fire, flood etc) you just get you and your child out.

you are fleeing abuse. And,this is the most dangerous time.

My sister went to collect some overnight stuff. He told her he thinks I have pnd. He is just hammering it in even more that this is the only decision.