Asking fathers permission to propose

[janfebmar87]

Inspired by another thread but not a thread about a thread.

I really feel this is out dated and perpetuates the narrative that women are the possession of men

If we ever want true equality then we need to put "traditions" like this to bed.

As a PP has pointed out, it’s possible to show the first two of these in many other different ways. And I’m not into tradition purely for tradition’s sake when it has its roots in misogyny. To me, it’s mindlessly performative at best, and in the case of my own family, extremely damaging.

Traditions such as wearing white or having flowers don't involve women being treated as possessions. A man asking a women's father if he can marry her very much is.

I don't think jm a "die hard feminist" what ever that is.

My father walked me down the aisle. I wanted both my parents but my mother refused cause "tradition". It was made very clear he was escorting me and not giving me away'

I wear an engagement ring. Chose it myself and we laid out of joint savings, I bought dh a box set of limited edition Star Wars cufflinks!

I just think we need to slowly move away from "traditions" like these.

I am an equal partner in my marriage.

Agreed. Didn’t Queen Victoria introduce the fashion of wearing a white wedding dress, when she married Albert, so starting a whole fashion trend? Also it didn’t have to do with virginity, but rather a sign of wealth/status and being able to flaunt that wealth, on your wedding day?

Exactly. People can do things differently, because just because it’s “tradition”, or “it’s how we have always done it”, doesn’t make it necessarily right, especially if it has misogynistic and chauvinistic origins.

It's completely cringe. But it takes all sorts.

It’s a dreadful tradition, that thankfully few people follow (I imagine). If DH had asked my dad, he’d have been embarrassed, my dad would be embarrassed, everyone would be embarrassed. I’m glad he didn’t.

Nothing like depriving women of agency and disguising it as quaintly old fashioned. The guy who seeks permission from your Dad for your hand in marriage is the same guy who will assume all responsibility for the family finances and cut you out of the big decisions.

My husband asked my dad. My dad laughed and said ‘what would you do if I said no?’ My husband laughed and said he’d ask me anyway. I thought it was kind of sweet that my husband was confident enough seek my dad’s approval before asking. His own dad is dead and my dad had become a bit of a father figure to him too. I think it’s completely unnecessary but if people are in a dynamic where they want to do it I don’t understand why it’s an issue. Why can’t we just let people do their own thing without getting all worked up about it. I’m a strong independent woman - I don’t need mumsnet’s keyboard warriors to protect me thanks.

I don’t think there are any key board warriors on here, trying to protect you. Any one can think and do what they want. We are just having a discussion, which contains some disagreement in points of view, but that’s fine.

Yea I don't see key board warriors. All anyone is asking is for people to think about some "traditions"

You are the equal of any man

The latter is still very much part of the traditional wedding today 😜

I didn’t wear white because I didn’t want to.
(Did wear a bra though - not that much of a raging feminist!!) DH and I gave some thought to the various traditions, adopted those we were comfortable with, and adapted / disregarded the ones where we weren’t. We’d probably do it differently again were we getting married now. I do think the whole ‘permission’ thing is pretty difficult to defend though.

I decided to propose to my husband on his birthday (we had already talked about marriage in the future and I thought it would be fun as it was a leap year too). I used to work near his mum (in the same building) so when I ordered his ring I popped down to her to show her it and asked for her blessing. She was delighted and he was too (got down on my knee as well 😁).

My husband knew I'd have been annoyed if he had asked - it's not up to my Dad! Luckily my Mum also thinks it's a weird thing to do so my Dad didn't ask my Grandad back in the early 70s.

A couple of thought come to mind...
Being engaged was of a time when girls married younger and had fewer job opportunities. The ring meant an exclusive relationship and was a cash investment by the man that she could own. It's symbolic these days.
As father of two doctor girls, one suitor asked and we now have a great SIL, the other did not and has been dismissive of me. He seems to think I had no part in providing him a wife who could support him and his children if he was unable to.
With age came realisation that earning potential, decent honesty sound wider family and generous spirit are things that I'd want to know about if asked.
Inherited wealth used to follow male lines in family. I'd object to passing mine on to a witless narcissist SIL

On reflection (because I've just been thinking about this a bit today so close to my own wedding!) my soon to be husband didn't ask permission as such; more asked for a blessing from my parents. I think it was more for approval than for anything else and to reassure them. My lovely dad did ask him if he knew what he was getting into 'taking me on' 😂😂

As father of two doctor girls, one suitor asked and we now have a great SIL, the other did not and has been dismissive of me. He seems to think I had no part in providing him a wife who could support him and his children if he was unable to.

You make it sound like you were fattening up a pig for market! I guess through having a good education and parental support, your daughters have become strong and independent women, capable of making their own decisions, including who they marry.
I’m sorry to hear you don’t get on with your SIL. I hope he makes your daughter happy.

Someone asking you for 'permission' to marry your child does not "show you who someone is"
Asking you does not mean that someone is going to make sure your daughter is "safe and well"
You do seem to know this deep down because you acknowledge that it doesn't mean they'll "make a good life partner" or "will be faithful" As long as they ask for permission hey? 🙄What you want is more about YOU and your insecurities as a single mum. You are going to be doing your daughter a huge, and potentially dangerous, disservice if this is the yardstick you value the most.

This clearly isn't a yardstick I value most. I value honesty and decency.

But i also value how someone handles themselves. And psrt of that is being respectful and, yes, asking my permission to marry my daughter.

Someone saying thank you after you let them in front of you in a queue of traffic doesn't mean that they're a decent person. But it makes you like them more than someone who doesn't.

These little social niceties don't mean someone is perfect, but it shows politeness and decency which are things that also matter. And it matters to me that someone respects me enough to respect how I'd want this situation handled. If they didn't, I'd definitely think less of them.

Why would I? I was the one being proposed to - but if I was the one proposing, then yes, I'd have done the same thing

A bloke once asked my Dad for permission to date me.

So I told him he'd messed up that chance of a date.

Sure you would. Men are so into being treated like little boys who don’t have agency over their own sex lives.

Surely you knew - you and your partner had discussed getting married?

Why is it respectful to ask permission to marry your daughter - she’s an adult and can decide for herself

My dad was very traditional and would have loved to give his blessing. I know he did for my sister and her husband. Unfortunately, he passed away before our engagement so it didn't happen. After he died, I said to DH that if he was going to propose, not to ask my mum. Perhaps strangely, at the time, I felt like it wouldn't be right to approach mum without my dad and it might have been difficult for my mum alone because she'd be thinking of my dad. I also remember after my sister's husband asked, with the benefit of hindsight, my mum so obviously knew it was happening and couldn't contain herself (although she never actually let the secret out). I decided then I wanted to be the first person to know about the proposal and have the excitement of telling people for the first time.

Each to their own, I think everyone places different value on traditions.

My mum walked me down the aisle and it was so lovely. To me, it didn't symbolise being given away but rather we were doing it together and she was there with me on one of the most special days of my life.