Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

[pennytoffees]

I'll start off by saying I'm welsh, born and bred and speak the language as does my entire family.

We visited (my mother and I) a local cafe today and had such an awful experience. We haven't been there in years but don't remember it being that bad. We don't sound welsh and spoke to them in English so they obviously assumed that we were tourists. They were very cold towards us.

Anyway, we placed our order and another staff member brought the food over to us. We asked for some sauces to which she replied "go and ask her" and then pointed to the woman at the till. There was a queue and we didn't want the food to go cold so asked her if she could get us some. She gave me a filthy look but reluctantly handed them over. I just want to add that at no point did she say that the sauces cost extra so we just presumed that they were free like most cafes/restaurants. It turns out that they weren't (to be honest I think it's pretty greedy charging customers for sachets of sauce when they've spent £14 on a meal and I don't know any other local businesses that do it but thats another argument). We would have paid with no issues had she explained that to us.

The main issue is that she came over to a couple sat behind us and started talking about us in Welsh thinking that we didn't understand. Funnily enough they asked for some sauces and she gave them for free but when we asked it was an issue. The only difference is they were clearly locals. At this point we'd had enough so I asked to speak with the manager and she asked me "why, is there a problem?". I said "yes but I'm not discussing it with you". Anyway, he came over and I explained what had happened. She was on the other side of the counter and came over and said "I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about you". She wasn't close enough to hear us talking so obviously knew what she had done wrong and was just trying to cover her tracks.

He apologised and we left it at that, didn't even finish our food as we felt so uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think he knew what to do but after reading the reviews online, it's clearly a regular occurrence and he doesn't care how his staff behaves or treats customers. It was embarrassing as everyone was looking at us. We don't like confrontation or causing trouble but felt we had to confront her. I believe we would have been treated differently had they known we were welsh. I was actually embarrassed to be welsh to be honest. They forget it's the tourists keeping them in business.

AIBU? Would you have confronted her or just walked away?

I agree.
In fact my experience of being in North Wales is that Welsh people will often switch to English so not to appear rude.

Amusingly my ds who understands Welsh but is not confident in speaking it was working the McDonalds drive through as a student in Bangor.
A woman customer refused to be served by ds because he didn’t speak Welsh.
She wanted a Welsh speaker to say Big Mac obviously. 🙄
This is unusual though.

I remember a very intelligent friend asking why wouldn’t Welsh schools teach a more useful second language.
I replied they do, English. Welsh is their first language.

What a horrible experience. I am English (with apparently Welsh ancestry, but not Welsh). I remember holidaying in Wales with my now ex - who is not English - who was ecstatic at the use of Welsh everywhere we went. I forbore to tell him that it was what is now called passive aggression.
I get that Edward I stuck one on Llewellyn ap Gruffydd but that was in 1285, and Llewellyn would have blamed the Welsh for that event, since some Welsh princes sided with Edward because they didn't like how Llewellyn was ruling Wales. Edward also stuffed it to the Scots and to the English who wanted some accountability from a king (Llewellyn's father-in-law was killed at the murder of Evesham in 1265) and the English have got over it (the Scots forget nothing, like the Welsh). We are all stuck on this island together and tied to NI as well, and the Normans stuffed us all in various ways, so being rude to English tourists seems a bit thick - tell the Prince of Wales to do one, if you like, after all, that's what the Welsh did in 1285.

Particularly, unless they're Native Americans, as they have been significant colonisers themselves!

Something similar happened to us in a cafe in Germany - they were a bit gobsmacked when we spoke to them in German!

Are you actually fluent in Welsh op? It just seems like you’ve set up a thread here to encourage Welsh bashing (particularly north wales). People are saying how unfriendly north walians are towards all English people (and apparently south walians), that north walians will come and use the English nhs even though they don’t like the English, people are saying that Welsh people actually switch language just to piss off English people. It’s a shit thread to be honest.

I’m from NW and am not rude or unwelcoming nor is hardly anyone else I’ve ever met from NW

The Welsh speaking Welsh was passive aggression? Is that what you’re saying?

But not every Welsh speaker has a Welsh accent, and not every Welsh speaker speaks Welsh at home. Last time I visited north Wales everyone working in the shops and cafe on the high street were speaking in English to each other, quite a few hospitality staff seemed to be from abroad anyway, I really don't think it's that weird that this family used English first.

I visit North Wales often and have never encountered attitudes like this. Quite the opposite really.
@pennytoffees Funnily enough, I've got Salvage Hunters on in the background and neither Tee or Dirty Drew sound Welsh at all.

Sorry to hear that happened to you @pennytoffees. Good for you for standing up for yourself, there’s never a perfect to way to handle someone being off with you like that in the heat of the moment and I think what you did was fine.

Who knows, maybe if you had just confronted her in Welsh instead it would have escalated things more than asking for the manager.

Yep. Was once totally ignored very rudely by someone in an ice cream shop in Harlech, and made to feel unwelcome every night when eating in a pub nearby. Haven’t been back since, and won’t.

Established pathways exist for that though and ultimately NHS Wales gets billed, if you're in north Wales and need a burns unit you're going to Liverpool.

In my experience over nearly sixty years this is typical of establishments in north Wales. My wife and I have London accents which frequently sparks a sudden change from English among themselves in shops, pubs, etc., into Welsh. We spent many holidays in the Lleyn peninsula area from 1965 onwards but after being treated so badly we decided to go elsewhere for recreation. Ireland and Scotland have their prejudices but they seem to understand that the ordinary English folk are not responsible for any real or imagines historic slights. It's the ruling classes who abused the ordinary people in all areas of the British Isles, to assume it was different for the English working people is misguided.

So not every English born person has an English accent even if they’re raised in a certain part of England? What accent would a Welsh person, who speaks Welsh and lives in north wales have, do you imagine - even when speaking English?

@Frozensnow yes fluent in welsh, born in Ysbyty Gwynedd and lived in Conwy my whole life. My family live all over north wales including Anglesey.

I didn't start this thread for people to bash North Wales obviously. It was about the cafe and if we were unreasonable for causing a scene. I'm disappointed to hear other people's experiences as the people I know (family, friends, local businesses) are very friendly and welcoming. I'm not ashamed to be welsh but it does make me wonder how this particular cafe and its staff treat other visitors and what they must think of us!

This

Why?

I remember a very intelligent friend asking why wouldn’t Welsh schools teach a more useful second language.
I replied they do, English. Welsh is their first language.

Apparently Jacob Rees Mogg has been known to refer to Welsh as a foreign language. It is actually descended from the original Brythonic language and less foreign than English!

That's really offensive. I'm Welsh born and bred, back several generations, and I don't speak Welsh at all. Neither do majority of the Welsh population, so it's hardly comparable to Spanish in Spain. Who are you you define what language I or OP should speak in our own country? Some of the stereotypes of Wales and ideas of what really being Welsh mean on this thread are so annoying.

OP, obviously it was crap customer service and you were not wrong to complain. I would say though you get crap customer service everywhere, and also people giving favourable service to people they know / regulars everywhere. It's not necessarily a language thing particularly.

I don't think that's fair to the OP. I have pals in Wales and have had overall very positive experiences but I would identify that particularly on Anglesey there is a minority who take any opportunity to stick a finger up to the English. I'd probably feel the same if my beautiful home was overrun with tourists disrespecting the beaches, driving up house prices and causing carnage in Waitrose.

@Lovemycat21 sadly it's not. I honestly don't know why people think I've made this up 🤷🏼‍♀️

Dwin sharad cymraeg. Im from North Wales, but I’ve been living in England for some time now and don’t have a strong accent. Recently, I visited North Wales with two English friends for a short holiday, and we had a fantastic time.

Im sorry you encounter poor customer service at one café, with one woman. But I don’t think it’s fair to take that as a reflection of North Walians as a whole.

I also agree with a previous poster—what kind of Welsh person would start a thread encouraging people to rant about the Welsh? Let’s focus on positivity and celebrate what makes Wales and its people so wonderful instead!

I'm Welsh speaking from North Wales, but don't sound Welsh. My English accent is a Manc/Scouse hybrid. Very common in NE Wales.

Sorry to hear about this OP. Hopefully the rude waitress will have learnt her lesson!

We had similar in Betws y Coed. Very rude staff in a café there. I'd never return to North Wales. The only friendly people we encountered there were English.