Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

[pennytoffees]

I'll start off by saying I'm welsh, born and bred and speak the language as does my entire family.

We visited (my mother and I) a local cafe today and had such an awful experience. We haven't been there in years but don't remember it being that bad. We don't sound welsh and spoke to them in English so they obviously assumed that we were tourists. They were very cold towards us.

Anyway, we placed our order and another staff member brought the food over to us. We asked for some sauces to which she replied "go and ask her" and then pointed to the woman at the till. There was a queue and we didn't want the food to go cold so asked her if she could get us some. She gave me a filthy look but reluctantly handed them over. I just want to add that at no point did she say that the sauces cost extra so we just presumed that they were free like most cafes/restaurants. It turns out that they weren't (to be honest I think it's pretty greedy charging customers for sachets of sauce when they've spent £14 on a meal and I don't know any other local businesses that do it but thats another argument). We would have paid with no issues had she explained that to us.

The main issue is that she came over to a couple sat behind us and started talking about us in Welsh thinking that we didn't understand. Funnily enough they asked for some sauces and she gave them for free but when we asked it was an issue. The only difference is they were clearly locals. At this point we'd had enough so I asked to speak with the manager and she asked me "why, is there a problem?". I said "yes but I'm not discussing it with you". Anyway, he came over and I explained what had happened. She was on the other side of the counter and came over and said "I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about you". She wasn't close enough to hear us talking so obviously knew what she had done wrong and was just trying to cover her tracks.

He apologised and we left it at that, didn't even finish our food as we felt so uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think he knew what to do but after reading the reviews online, it's clearly a regular occurrence and he doesn't care how his staff behaves or treats customers. It was embarrassing as everyone was looking at us. We don't like confrontation or causing trouble but felt we had to confront her. I believe we would have been treated differently had they known we were welsh. I was actually embarrassed to be welsh to be honest. They forget it's the tourists keeping them in business.

AIBU? Would you have confronted her or just walked away?

I am Welsh born and bred and live in Wales. From a part of South Wales where Welsh is not spoken much. I don't speak Welsh either. I still think what OP is describing is a very odd scenario, as do other Welsh people on this thread.

If you think my post is offensive report it.

@cosmos1001 my thread wasn't to encourage people to bash the welsh. I'm welsh so it would make no sense for me to do that. It was about this particular cafe and if we were unreasonable for causing a scene. I can only imagine what visitors must think of us though if they visit that cafe as they will probably be treated the same way if they don't sound/speak Welsh.

People didn’t suddenly change into Welsh simply because you wandered into their shop- how ridiculous. They probably just continued speaking Welsh. Welsh people can speak Welsh to one another you know. Why do you think they shouldn’t just because you’re in the shop? If they’re not speaking to you why shouldn’t they speak in their mother tongue? Many people in the NW are far more comfortable speaking Welsh than English

I think the amount of xenophobia on this thread towards Welsh people and their language is appalling.

yes fluent in welsh, born in Ysbyty Gwynedd and lived in Conwy my whole life. My family live all over north wales including Anglesey.

But you prefer to speak English even in a very Welsh speaking part of North Wales? That is puzzling and rather sad to me.

I went to Aberystwyth to do my PCGE. I walked into a shop, people behind the counter were speaking in English. As soon as they heard me speaking English, they switched to Welsh. Maybe they do speak a mixture of both, but I found it a bit off putting. I'm a language teacher, I switch between the languages I teach and English, but only when speaking to people in my department because I know they understand.

I'm genuinely confused by your point here. No, not every English person has an accent giving away where they are from, do you think everyone in Manchester sounds like the Gallaghers?
I know plenty of people, particularly living in Denbighshire, who don't have a discernable Welsh accent. Some people do have a strong accent and some people don't. It's entirely possible that the OP doesn't.

Obviously some people living in north Wales speak and think in Welsh, attend Welsh school, and use Welsh as their first language. Some families flit between more readily, may have members who don't speak Welsh at all and so primarily speak English, attend English school, and end up with a foot in two camps. Both families would still be Welsh!

@Letmegohome what were they saying? And im very impressed you speak Hindi, how did you learn?

Most people mix a lot of English words in- it’s called Wenglish. Which probably is what causes a lot of English people to mistaking believe Welsh speakers have ‘switched’ to Welsh to be rude when they haven’t

yanbu if it were me I'd of responded in Welsh.

Haha, yes to this.

On this occasion, I guess so. If you find that puzzling or sad, that's fine. I still don't think we deserve to be treated that way regardless of what language we were speaking.

I remember this sort of thing happening whilst on holiday as a child some 40 years ago, put me off for life TBH. Once a group of us were in a gallery in Central London and a woman in there said, in French 'they don't look like the sort of people who can afford this art' (she was right, we couldn't) and my friend replied in French 'well, you never know!' The woman was dumbstruck, and my friend the hero of the day 🤣

A bit baffled by the people attacking OP for not speaking Welsh! That's what it means to be truly bilingual. You are fluent and comfortable in both languages and can happily use either!

My mam can speak Welsh (as can I), but we always spoke English at home because my Dad is English. It feels unnatural to speak Welsh with her. But with my school friends, who I grew up speaking Welsh with, I always speak Welsh.

My sympathies. I've had something recently in a Costa where I am a regular. There's one girl serving who is all smiles to guys and absolutely vile to me.

I think you really should have pulled the Welsh card though and specifically addressed her in Welsh and made sure she heard it.

She's not nice. I guess all you can do is leave them to it.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I still think it was a bad idea. It’s essentially created a platform for people to bash the Welsh, which is never helpful.

I'm not sure why you would have said that then. You must know it's not the same as Spanish in Spain. Just because she CAN speak Welsh doesn't mean she has too. Your use of the word 'bother' is very odd. Welsh isn't morally superior. The people in the cafe obviously spoke English too, so it didn't cause them a problem.

Yes, there are xenophobic people in all countries. They tend not to be the more intelligent members of the population.

@putitdown356 family connection, I know a few "fun replies" in different languages. I was (in their perception) on my own with small children and was "an easy slag, that's why kids look different from each other "
Children not my own and full siblings.
I couldn't hold a conversation , but the look of pure shock on their faces was magical!

@Letmegohome would love to have seen it!

You're entitled to your own feelings, but this thread is not about your feelings and you seem set on denying the OP's experience.

Moreover, when people are bilingual they quite often, for example, use the language that they find the most convenient, depending on the subject. For example they might not know the terminology for discussing computers in one language but might know it in another. I have a friend who is bilingual and speaks her father's language when she's with her parents, even when alone with and talking to her mother (whose first language is different). People use language as they choose.

similar happene to me in wales-was in a shop talking to my step daughhter 0im originally from london so quite cockney-2 women near me starte to talk in welsh-my sd turne roun an said something like dont be so rude in welsh

she pulle me away an said they were slagging me off saying bloody english everywhhere-an you imagine if i sai that about them

@putitdown356 the children did tell mummy I'd said something "very naughty"!

That does not ring true, if you are fluent in Welsh and go to a cafe in a predominantly Welsh speaking area you would naturally initiate any conversations in Welsh. I worked in a village in which was overwhelmingly first language Welsh and all the Welsh speakers who came into the shop for the first time initially spoke Welsh to me without exception.

Am English and ended up living in North Wales for a while with a Welsh man. Many people were absolutely fine with me but others could be incredibly rude in shops and so forth. Unfortunately it seems to be par for the course.