Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

[pennytoffees]

I'll start off by saying I'm welsh, born and bred and speak the language as does my entire family.

We visited (my mother and I) a local cafe today and had such an awful experience. We haven't been there in years but don't remember it being that bad. We don't sound welsh and spoke to them in English so they obviously assumed that we were tourists. They were very cold towards us.

Anyway, we placed our order and another staff member brought the food over to us. We asked for some sauces to which she replied "go and ask her" and then pointed to the woman at the till. There was a queue and we didn't want the food to go cold so asked her if she could get us some. She gave me a filthy look but reluctantly handed them over. I just want to add that at no point did she say that the sauces cost extra so we just presumed that they were free like most cafes/restaurants. It turns out that they weren't (to be honest I think it's pretty greedy charging customers for sachets of sauce when they've spent £14 on a meal and I don't know any other local businesses that do it but thats another argument). We would have paid with no issues had she explained that to us.

The main issue is that she came over to a couple sat behind us and started talking about us in Welsh thinking that we didn't understand. Funnily enough they asked for some sauces and she gave them for free but when we asked it was an issue. The only difference is they were clearly locals. At this point we'd had enough so I asked to speak with the manager and she asked me "why, is there a problem?". I said "yes but I'm not discussing it with you". Anyway, he came over and I explained what had happened. She was on the other side of the counter and came over and said "I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about you". She wasn't close enough to hear us talking so obviously knew what she had done wrong and was just trying to cover her tracks.

He apologised and we left it at that, didn't even finish our food as we felt so uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think he knew what to do but after reading the reviews online, it's clearly a regular occurrence and he doesn't care how his staff behaves or treats customers. It was embarrassing as everyone was looking at us. We don't like confrontation or causing trouble but felt we had to confront her. I believe we would have been treated differently had they known we were welsh. I was actually embarrassed to be welsh to be honest. They forget it's the tourists keeping them in business.

AIBU? Would you have confronted her or just walked away?

It's really not that unusual. I know plenty of people who speak the language but don't converse in welsh day to day.

What a horrible woman! I think you were right to do what you did. You should've made the complaint in Welsh!

I've always fancied going to Wales, it looks as if there are some lovely places, but I have heard accounts of this kind of unwelcoming behaviour towards tourists in Wales several times TBH.

A lovely woman I used to work with once told me her family had to relocate to Wales with her husband's job when her kids were small. She said the practically the whole village actively shunned them regardless of any attempts to integrate. Said it was the most miserable year of her life. She came from a village herself, so knew there is sometimes a bit of insularity about incomers but it was next level. It was 30 years ago so maybe it's better now.

Do you think it's to do with second homes being bought up and AirBnBs mopping up all the properties?

Is this common in north wales? It's weird but I'm almost glad to hear it's not just us. Went to a pub in snowdonia and were told by the owner that they weren't serving lunch. We sat down anyway to have a drink at least. We then noticed that everyone around us was having lunch, being served lunch or having their lunch order taken. We thought we must have misunderstood the owner as the waitress said they were still doing lunch. While she was taking our lunch order the owner stomped over to our table yelling that he had already told us that they won't serve us lunch. I remember the poor waitress looking really confused and mortified.

The bnb owners were a bit strange as well. They had signs at reception that clearly said that they had a reception room for common use and we could dry our boots there but when we did just that they complained and told us not to.

I normally get very upset at racist behaviour but I guess the scenery in snowdonia kind of made up for it...

Forget to say that we are not white. My post probably doesn't make much sense without that.

We are not Welsh but have lived in North Wales for nearly 11 years... Have found the people incredibly welcoming and friendly(aside from the odd exceptions but you get those everywhere!)

This is just poor customer service pure and simple! Deserves to be called out on it!

If you live in NW England, why would you drive through Wales without stopping? Also, how do you know if someone switches languages as you walk into a place? You must have amazing hearing to hear through doors and walls, plus these bilingual people must be fantastic at identifying someone’s language / nationality as they enter a building.

To get to the ferry!

I've known Americans who referred to themselves as 'colonials' when talking to me. They seemed to think that was how the British saw them. Very strange.

Why would they if English comes more naturally? There are still way more people in Wales who speak English as a first language than the other way round.

What's the name of the cafe @pennytoffees ?

It doesn't seem like there was any point in talking to the manager either.

ive always had really positive experiences in Wales, lovely place & lovely people. I always thought English people wanging on about had badly they're treated was a bit of an urban legend type thing.

but I forget my NZ accent is still very noticeable despite having been born in England, now living 3 miles from where I was born & lived away from NZ (although not here for all that time)20 years. It's a negative more than a positive, but looks like it's a benefit in Wales!

What context justifies prejudice exactly? How does that sort of free pass ever get us to cohesive, high trust societies?

Whilst this woman was incredibly rude op and I’m sorry you experienced that, I do think it’s a shame this thread has turned into a north wales bashing thread. Like in every country, there will be some knob heads. But plenty of people in north wales are welcoming and friendly. Yes they will speak Welsh in their own country (they’re not usually ‘switching’ but actually carrying on speaking in their own language). But it’s not usually to be offensive, it’s just the native language for many especially towards the west. I’m Welsh but don’t sound it and have never had any issue on the many many times I have headed west with my English accent.

Lle ar Ynys Mon oedd yr caffi? Ag ydw, dwi yn meddwl fod yna parch i siarad yr iaith pan dyna be mae’r pobol lleol yn siarad. Yn enwedig pan allwch chi siarad yr iaith eich hun.

I think that you have shown more disrespect than the other way around to be honest. I would think if you’re a Welsh speaker born and bred they knew you could understand them. Unless you know how to put on a particular good English accent.

Here’s an interesting article about the myth that people speaking Welsh in pubs switch to Welsh when English people walk in.

https://nation.cymru/opinion/welsh-speakers-switch-english-walk-into-pub/

I’d leave a review on Trip Advisor. I’ve never heard of charging for sauces.

I agree with this. I'm sorry those people were so rude op! I think you handled it quite well. If I could speak Welsh, I'd have been tempted to ask for the manager in Welsh and watched her face drop.

We visit North Wales quite frequently and have never experienced anything negative as English people. Can you name the cafe, I'd quite like to keep my positive experiences in Wales and avoid this awful place.

100% this. Address the issue and make the point. It eacalated and got uncomfortable because you asked to speak to the manager.

Or when she told you to get the sauces at the till you should have spoken to her in Welsh then.

@LostTheMarble ok, so say we were English and couldn't speak the language, would their behaviour still be ok? Or is it just because we're locals and didn't want to converse in welsh today that it's justified?

Just to add that we said "we can hear you" in welsh when she was talking about us but she'd walked off by that point and I don't think she heard us. When I spoke to the manager my mum came up and told the woman that we speak welsh.

Very happy to cross the border to use our NHS though, as theirs is even worse.

Oh bring on the anti welsh brigade!

IMO all paying customers should be treated the same regardless of where they come from or what language they speak. Personally when asking for the manager I’d have done so in Welsh just to see her face when she realised 😂

Im from north wales originally (yn siarad Cymraeg) though sound English these days and dh and dcs are English.
I’ve got to be honest I’ve never had a bad experience with welsh speakers in wales whether I covered in English or welsh. However yours is certainly not the first story I’m heard. It’s a real shame. It’s otherwise a wonderful place to visit.

As someone who is also from north west wales, i agree with other posters. This is a myth perpetrated by a few (often English) people who think that people speak Welsh in wales is exclusionary or every deciding that there is some secret planning to deceive going on in front of them. As I said, if you really are a Welsh speaker and grew up in north wales, it is very difficult for me to believe they thought you were an English tourist. There is absolutely an undertone here of ‘moan about Welsh people in wales’ , and of course it’s working very well from the responses. For anyone else reading this thread thinking that the Welsh have it out for tourists - they really don’t, they’re not talking about you or trying to fleece you for a packet of HP sauce.

This makes me sad. I really love Anglesey. This particular woman was a dick, but it’s good to remember that loads of Welsh people are really nice to tourists. I’ve never had an issue, and we go to stay at least twice a year.