Would you expect an apology in this situation?

[TheGruffalochild]

About half a year ago we visited my db in another city with ds2 and dd6. We had a long day looking around busy museums, walking around the city and then a meal at a pub. By the time we arrived for the meal the kids were exhausted. I always try to sit outside with the kids because they behave better and it doesn’t disrupt others if we are a bit loud chaotic and to be honest try not to eat out too much with them because it can be challenging. However db insisted we sit inside because he wanted it to be nice and he had invited his gf. (They don’t have kids)
As predicted, inside ds2 fell asleep and woke up as the food was arriving, crying confused at where he was and just general post nap grumpiness. Dd6 food came and wasn’t what she expected so she was a bit grumpy about that. Then, while trying to sort out ds, my Dh knocked over dds drink and spilled it all over her clothes. Dd started crying, got up out her chair and I was trying to dry her when db came over and started to clean the table. Dd was starting to enter meltdown mode, and seeing db sat in her chair raised her voice at him and told him hey, get out of my chair. My db told her off for speaking to him that way.
Noticing the situation was escalating I asked dh to remove the kids and take them back to the hotel room, which he did swiftly.
My db then started laying into me about my parenting and kids behavior and I told him he was out of place. Some back and forth went back about who was right/wrong and then I also left.
We didn’t speak for six months, but recently I reached out to make amends.
DB is insisting I should have immediately apologized for dds behavior and he felt disrespected and I crossed his boundaries by allowing her to talk to him like that. He won’t move on until I apologize.
My take on it is:
He already told her off himself
I was too focused on dealing with the meltdown unfolding and sorting everyone out to apologize immediately
I was tired and hungry myself and it wasn’t the best moment to start attacking my parenting
Kids will be kids. I don’t expect apologies from other parents when their kids meltdown and I’ve seen much worse (biting hitting swearing etc.) from other kids meltdowns
I warned him the pub setting wasn’t right

He was sitting in her chair and in her space while she was in stress. He should have just let me and dh deal with it.

AIBU?

*So did she apologise to him at any point?

Your brother is being very dramatic, but I do think your daughter was very rude and should have been told to apologise.*

The difference is one is a 6 yo child and the other is a grown ass man.

It’s all in here OP. I think you & your brother need to have a chat about your upbringing.

It sounds like it was chaotic and when DB saw your DD ‘not enjoying’ the museum he may have thought ‘oh god, here we go again’. Back to his/your childhood.

You sound like a lovely mum - keep talking to your (idiot) brother. Explain how far away from your own parents parenting you are and that yes, all children will, eventually, have a meltdown.

also, if a museum in school hols isn’t the 7th circle of hell then I don’t know what is!

Everyone is a perfect parent before they have kids...
There's a time for discipline, tired cranky kids aren't usually receptive to it.
Bit of a hypocrite isn't he, expecting perfect manners and composure from small children, while having no issue telling off another grown up in public himself.

100%

Obviously, hence why OP is responsible for her daughters behaviour and having her apologise, and not her brothers.

I know I’ve met them. I’ve also seen them switch off from constant berating every little thing from parents. Trying to discipline when a child is hungry, tired and has just had sticky lemonade thrown all over her is just pointless. Have seen plenty of adults with supposedly fully developed frontal lobes have a meltdown at getting something on their clothes.

She’s not in the wrong, he is. She had drink poured over her, she was tired, he was sitting in her seat, her meal is not what she expected and she’s 6!!! I would not apologise, he should have been understanding about the situation and he should have understood that she’s just a child. Who needs an apology about a 6 yr olds behaviour given the circumstance!!??

This.

I disagree. Having a meltdown is not the same as a tantrum. With a meltdown the nervous system is completely disregulated and the parts of the brain responsible for communication and logical thinking are taken over or impaired.
A six year old experiencing sensory overload which leads to a meltdown is no way responsible on that moment for their inability to regulate themselves.

The parent carries that responsibility for them.

DB is ridiculous for being offended by a child.
Op I think you should apologise on behalf of your DD, explain the reality of a meltdown and why you are apologising on her behalf.

If he doesn't accept it that's his problem.

Your brother is being ridiculous to still be hanging on to all this.

This was a minor incident. It be should barely be remembered let alone still the source of a family dispute!

Your brother needs to get over himself. Your kids have a reasons for their behaviour - they were little kids in a situation that emotionally overwhelmed them. Your brother is a fully grown adult perfectly able to put things in their proper perspective, yet is failing to do so. He's the one behaving badly.

I agree. A tired hungry toddler wailing when woken in a strange place is completely understandable but a six year old ordering her uncle to get out of a chair needs a parent to tell her not to be rude, and to say sorry to the uncle if the child doesn’t. However the dispute should be forgotten sooner than 6 months!

Your daughter sounds rude, she shouldn't be raising her voice at her elders.

Canalboat · Today 08:32
**
Is he planning on having children of his own? Very easy to criticise others parenting when you’ve no experience yourself. Did you get on ok before this? He’s being very unreasonable

he is but Tbf we were often horrified by the behaviour of small children in restaurants pre-kids, especially if it was a pricey one.

Granny and Grandad now, were far more sanguine 😁

He wasn’t sitting in ‘her chair’. It was the pub’s chair which was empty as your DD had vacated it. He was sitting there to help clean up the mess your Dh had created. Your DD was rude to him and he called her out on it. That should have been the end of the matter but you chose to send your DC away with DH (which was probably a sensible thing to do) and continued to argue with your DB.
Neither of you were in the right, but it really annoys me that people assume if you don’t have children yourself you’re not entitled to an opinion on their behaviour.
You both have 2 choices - continue the situation as it stands by refusing to apologise to each other for what happened, or both say sorry and move on. It’s pointless raking over what happened and who said what to whom because each of you will have a skewed memory of the event. “I’m sorry for what happened, can we move on please?” Should suffice.

You keep saying melt down is she neuro diverse? If not it's a tantrum. I have a soon to be six year old, he is capable of a day out that doesn't focus on him and if they were hungry earlier you should've put your foot down as their parent and made sure they were fed

I can't believe people are focusing on the behaviour of a six year having a bad day, but not the behaviour of an adult demanding apologies six months after this trivial event and creating a family rupture till he gets one.

Its his behaviour which is gobsmackingly entitled, demanding, and utterly out of order.

I'm always astonished at responses on threads like this where posters seem to expect better behaviour and self control from children. in this case a SIX year old, than they do of actual adults.
Its remarkable how the adult behaviour is excused or overlooked but not the child's!.

I'm honestly shocked to see many people speaking so harshly of the little girl. As though grown adults never lose their temper momentarily. Children are more than capable of learning lessons without being told off immediately every time.

I don't think that's the problem, yes she can lose her temper but she should apologise and her parents should be showing her that's the right thing to do

What, like the adults are? Why is she being held to higher standards than them?

I agree, no one comes off well here. But you know your children and what they can and cannot do. It's not your brother's responsibility.

Is your daughter actually neurodiverse? I wouldn't expect an average 6 year old to have a 'meltdown' in these circumstances.

OP should apologise too. The brother is stringing it out longer than necessary, but essentially he's gone on a day out and his niece has sulked about her food and shouted at him for sitting in 'her' chair the children have been taken off and then his sister fails to apologise for her daughter's behaviour. Yes they were tired and hungry, that's not their fault but it's not his either, he isn't their parent OP is and should've fed them earlier and got them back to the hotel. Why are we expecting a person who doesn't have children to know how to raise them?

Your brother sounds like a dick.He needs to keep his beak out of how you parent your children.

I don't understand why you took your dc on such a long day out before the meal, multiple busy museums and walking around the city, if you knew they would become a bit fractious and overtired for mealtimes. Your db obviously has no idea about dc, and was rude to berate your parenting, but you know your dc best and they were already a bit fed up when you finally got to the meal and then gave into your db wanting to sit inside. I think there's some blame on both sides for things getting so out of hand.

DD can and should be forgiven for being rude, but ignoring rude behaviour in a six year old as though it’s completely justified by tiredness surely isn’t good parenting. It sounds as nobody behaved well that day including BD.