Would you expect an apology in this situation?

[TheGruffalochild]

About half a year ago we visited my db in another city with ds2 and dd6. We had a long day looking around busy museums, walking around the city and then a meal at a pub. By the time we arrived for the meal the kids were exhausted. I always try to sit outside with the kids because they behave better and it doesn’t disrupt others if we are a bit loud chaotic and to be honest try not to eat out too much with them because it can be challenging. However db insisted we sit inside because he wanted it to be nice and he had invited his gf. (They don’t have kids)
As predicted, inside ds2 fell asleep and woke up as the food was arriving, crying confused at where he was and just general post nap grumpiness. Dd6 food came and wasn’t what she expected so she was a bit grumpy about that. Then, while trying to sort out ds, my Dh knocked over dds drink and spilled it all over her clothes. Dd started crying, got up out her chair and I was trying to dry her when db came over and started to clean the table. Dd was starting to enter meltdown mode, and seeing db sat in her chair raised her voice at him and told him hey, get out of my chair. My db told her off for speaking to him that way.
Noticing the situation was escalating I asked dh to remove the kids and take them back to the hotel room, which he did swiftly.
My db then started laying into me about my parenting and kids behavior and I told him he was out of place. Some back and forth went back about who was right/wrong and then I also left.
We didn’t speak for six months, but recently I reached out to make amends.
DB is insisting I should have immediately apologized for dds behavior and he felt disrespected and I crossed his boundaries by allowing her to talk to him like that. He won’t move on until I apologize.
My take on it is:
He already told her off himself
I was too focused on dealing with the meltdown unfolding and sorting everyone out to apologize immediately
I was tired and hungry myself and it wasn’t the best moment to start attacking my parenting
Kids will be kids. I don’t expect apologies from other parents when their kids meltdown and I’ve seen much worse (biting hitting swearing etc.) from other kids meltdowns
I warned him the pub setting wasn’t right

He was sitting in her chair and in her space while she was in stress. He should have just let me and dh deal with it.

AIBU?

Honestly she won’t. There are other ways of bringing kids up to be polite adults (& teens come to that).

God he sounds pathetic, he’s all upset because a 6 year old shouted at him 😂

If he ever has kids buy them a drumkit and feed them sugar in any public places you happen to be in
Then he might actually get a Fing clue about being a parent

Just to clarify I did speak to Dd once we were back in the room and she had calmed down had a rest and into dry pjs. I find talking to her during a meltdown doesn’t really go in. She needs to be back in a state where she listen and one on one in private has a better effect on improving her behavior

Also theres a big difference between a child saying 'thats my chair' and saying aggressively 'get out of my chair' from a 6 year old that must have sounded incredibly demanding and rude id have been mortified if one of mine spoke that way to an uncle who was cleaning up their drink.
You have to say to yourself, what would the outcome be if they spoke that way for eg to their teacher at school who sat in their seat in a similar situation cleaning up spilled water? They would be in a lot of trouble at school!!!

Someone laughing at a 6 year old being rude just displays what type of parenting you portray.

And you should at that point have told her to go and apologise to her uncle.

Then why didn’t you say sorry your DB straight away and say you will speak to her later about it? He was in the right. Your child was rude and it’s not ‘cute’ when kids tell adults off. It’s just poor parenting.

Ugh. He really doesn't have a clue about kids. Does he plan to have any one day? I'd be tempted to say, let's wait until you have kids then let's revisit if you think I need to apologise!

My sister is like this but unfortunately is unable to have kids. So she goes around thinking she would be a better parent than me and I have to bite my tongue. I always wished she would one day have her own so she could eat some humble pie... But sadly not!

If you do make amends with your brother, no longer go along with his idea of what you should do on a day out. You pick the event as you as a parent know best what your children can cope with.

I wouldn’t tolerate my child speaking to anyone like that - get out of my chair. I’d have told my child to apologise.

There are an awful lot of very rude kids/teens these days. I have kids round my house and am shocked at how few pleases and thankyous i hear, how many demand things in quite a rude tone of voice, and hearing how they speak to their parents is honestly gobsmacking.

It’s a shit situation where everyone is tired and hungry and a bit disregulated. Your six year old especially. Could it have been handled differently at the time, sure. But everyone was doing the best they could in that moment. The fact that a grown adult is still stropping about a six year old feeling super disregulated and not being able to handle the situation calmly, six months down the line, and moaning about how you were doing your best to deal with that in the moment, is fucking ridiculous. Absolutely fucking ridiculous.

Your brother needs to look within, examine why he feels so triggered and put out by this situation, and develop some fucking empathy and compassion. I wouldn’t have any time for this absolute nonesense from him. It’s a massive overreaction to nothing.

Op knows her child and knew that trying to discipline her while she was in such a state would not only be useless buy probably escalate the situation even further. The girl was spoken to after she'd calmed down. She was rude it's hardly the crime of the century

It’s one of those 50:50 situations. Your children did come across grumpy and rude, and db did react to that. I think you all need to accept you behaved badly, and move on.

You sound lovely OP and a very tuned in, child comes first kind of parent.

Your brother sounds like a sanctimonious arsehole, old fashioned in his views and more than a little controlling.

Your 6yo will have picked up on his disdain for her and will have already been on edge.

Sod him! Your DC, your rules, your way. Everyone’s a perfect parent until they have kids of their own.

I don't think it's a big deal to say sorry DD shouted at you, she was overwhelmed and I spoke to her at the hotel. Presumably you didn't want her to shout at him and don't condone it so what's wrong with apologising for how the situation unfolded?

He was sitting in her chair and in her space while she was in stress. He should have just let me and dh deal with it.

But he was trying to help, and your daughter was very rude. I have to say my instinct would have been to apologise to him.

I think you need to have a conversation which acknowledges that you should have apologised, but also that he needs to get his head around the reality of parenting, particularly for a neurodivergent child, and realise that his own behaviour that day was unnecessarily adding to the stress for everyone.

Is your son looking at different levels of apprenticeships? I’ve found college students are just so fixated on headliner apprenticeships that they miss out on so much opportunity with letter known companies or at lower levels

Sometimes discretion is the better part of valour, and I do not pull DS up for things I would usually jump on when I can see that he is on the brink of a meltdown - I just get him out of wherever he is so he can have his meltdown somewhere safe/where we aren’t disturbing people. I will bring up the rude behaviour later.

Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen knowing you're kids were already tired and still going out for a meal.
Your DB was out of order but kids don't get to be rude in my opinion no if buts or maybes. Guess it comes down to how much of a relationship you want with your brother?

Your DB wouldn't be told that the pub wasn't a great idea for children of that age. Like your DB I don't have children - if a parent I was out with told me something wasn't going to work with their children, I'd believe them!

Oh please update us when he has children of his own OP. He's being pathetic here. You have nothing to apologise for. Sometimes with kids you have a day (or part of) that's just a 💩 show. The end.

There’s a possibility that this went wrong at the point that your DB planned a long day out that was more than the kids could cope with. One of my DCs is ND and even when he was a baby before we had pieced it all together, we knew families who would go on huge day trips together that just did not work for us. We could usually be out for around an hour before it would be too much for my DS and we would need to head home.

so I think the mistake on the day with your DB was agreeing to an itinerary that you knew wouldn’t work for your kids. Instead of giving your DB realistic expectations you just went along with it, and then the kids are held responsible for not coping with something they never could have been expected to cope with.

Your DB doesn’t get it, because until you’re a parent you don't really. but his expectations of the kids and how to plan a day out when there are kids in the mix are way off. He probably has no idea how much he doesn’t get it, and from his PoV the kids are acting up.

Next time, put your foot down and don’t agree to a plan for the day that doesn’t work for your kids. He sounds very inflexible.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻‍♀️

Your DB sounds like he's stuck in childhood sibling mode and is bullying you.