To be Concerned about husband's reaction to Xmas planning making it about race

[anonymousxmasposter]

I'm a British Asian woman married to a white man, and I'm currently pregnant with our first child. I need some advice about a situation that's really bothering me.

I suggested hosting Christmas this year but separately for our families - mainly because of logistics. My family is quite large (10 people), younger (mostly teens and twenty-somethings), and celebrates with music, games, and a lively atmosphere. His family is small (4 people), much older (60s-80s), more traditional, and quieter. His father has dementia and hearing difficulties, which makes large gatherings challenging for him.

When I suggested hosting our families separately to make everyone more comfortable, my husband immediately accused me of wanting an "Asian-only Christmas where we just do our own Asian thing." I was shocked because it had nothing to do with race - I was thinking about space, comfort levels, and very different celebration styles. My sisters boyfriend is white too, so it wasn't about excluding anyone based on race.

I ended up feeling so guilty that I changed my plans to invite his family, but I'm deeply troubled by his response and how quickly he turned a practical concern into a racial accusation. This isn't the first time he's done something like this - any discussion involving race tends to end badly.

I'm especially worried as we're expecting a child. What if our child had heard that comment?

Im also keen to hear from people in same race relationships, for Xmas if you were hosting at your home, do you also blend families - was it weird of me to say I didn't want to do that?

Whether you have or haven't what the hell do I do with this as feel really alone with this and could use some advice as I have no one I can talk to about this without judgement.

Or... it could just be that he's taken this the wrong way and sees it as excluding his family??? Nice bit of projection though.

Honestly. You’re really saying she has to adapt her whole cooking plan aren’t you? My pil are in their 70s and would HATE Indian food at Christmas, I’m not guessing or being hypothetical. They’d have a miserable Christmas sitting there pretending to peck at their meal if we served Indian.

Hosting families separately is more common than not, at least because the space is usually limited.
Your DH’s reaction was very strange and alarming tbh, you were trying to be not only reasonable but considerate - his dad would definitely benefit from separate hosting. So it was like your DH was picking up on you with no reason at all. He could have disagreed because of hassle/ timing/ something else but he referred on something that wasn’t there and it seemed was quite emotional about it.
It’s a very strange reaction, I would think about it carefully if I were you. Your DH clearly has an agenda towards your family.

He doesn’t expect them all to celebrate together, the op said he’s been perfectly happy not to see her family which has annoyed her.

@anonymousxmasposter this sentence in your OP does concern me, "any discussion involving race tends to end badly". In what way? Surely you should have had the race conversations before you got married and before you got pregnant?

Only you know whether or not there are biased racial undertones in the things he says, not some ranting rabid on the internet who is only one step away from telling you to LTB, without knowing anything more than what you said in your first post!

I don't imagine a racist would be with you, or having a baby with you. Are his parents racist in any way?

Luckily it isn’t your parents that are invited then isn’t it.

There’s nothing stopping the husband, who wishes for his family to be there for the day, to take care of the turkey and the trimmings

Christmas is a side issue here.

He went straight to race when you had a discussion about how to handle family at Christmas. This needs exploring for the sake of your DC. If there is any subconscious racism, it needs to be educated out PDQ.

Don't people provide food to their guests' taste for any celebration? I presume the DH's hands aren't painted on either?

OK, so race... but is this any different to two families with wildly different outlooks on life, like where one side is reserved, religious, teetotal, and the other likes to party and get drunk?

Who knows re his hands? Im sure the op will clarify if he would actually race into action and glaze a ham and roast a turkey, so let’s see. But to be clear, you are saying that while she planned cooking their traditional foods, now either he has to cook some English foods too or he expects her to cook some English foods too.

is he going to ook then or expeting you to do all of it

Same here.

@anonymousxmasposter That sentence implies this isn't an isolated argument ?

Honestly, I just think the families are completely different and I don't think anyone wants a forced Xmas

I've been married over 30 years. We aren't a mixed race couple, but we aren't a mixing our families couple either. We either do something with his side, or with my side. Not only are our families different, but the numbers start getting unrealistic. Our families get on well enough to all be polite on the odd occasions we have had both side mingle (eg our wedding, the dcs' early birthdays) but it is polite chat, rather than everyone relaxing.
From families I know well, that doesn't seem to be unusual.

I think you need to ask why he brought race into it

I don't think what other families do is necessarily relevant. It is common for families to celebrate in two separate groups, but it seems like that isn't what you guys have done - so you are suggesting something new.

It can be very odd how people react to the suggestion they change holiday plans, or don't see their own family at Christmas. To me, it seems way out of proportion, but it's common enough to see it that I think it shows how deeply many people feel about that day in particular being crucial.

If your dh thinks that way, or is adverse to change in general, it may be part of why his reaction seems so extreme. He may well be having a really strong, reactive emotion about it. It's probably good to keep that in mind when you talk to him about it. Not that he gets to decide all alone, but awareness helps these conversations go better.

As for why he thought it was a race thing - I think the only answer is to ask him. "Dh, I was really surprised and a little concerned you thought I wanted an Asian only Christmas, it sounds like you think I am being racist about it. Why did you think/say that?"

I doubt your dh is a racist, or he wouldn't be married to you -despite what some people like to think, I do not think there is a rash of racist people in inter-racial marriages. He might answer something like "I don't know, I can see now that doesn't even make sense, I was angry because it seemed like you were saying it was more important to see your family at Christmas." And then you can say, no, I'm really just concerned about how your father is managing these days and whether he will enjoy Christmas in such a large crowd."

But he could also say something you don't expect - maybe he has felt excluded from your family at times, for example. That doesn't have to be intentional on their part (and can happen in any large family but a cultural difference can exacerbate it.) So you might need to talk about that a bit if that's the case.

Talking with your partner is generally the only good way to know what they are thinking.

I do think it's very telling that he brought race into it like that. Sorry 😕. It sounds like there are two issues, one is to do with finding the right balance between seeing each of your families, which is quite a normal thing to have some disagreement about (although actually, he sounds pretty unreasonable on that front too). The other is that as soon as a conflict is triggered, his immediate response brings your ethnicity into it in a negative way. Which suggests he's actually quietly rather bigoted, unfortunately. It's not like it's normal to be annoyed and feel the need to be racist as a result, you have to have those kinds of thoughts to begin with.

I really hope you can sort things out and get him to really commit to changing this or it will be a horrible thing to have in your mind with a new baby together. Time for a serious conversation I think and not let him brush this off.

Maybe he can even cook Indian food? Maybe the Asian guests would enjoy some traditional Christmas dinner? Maybe his family would enjoy Asian cooking? He could be a chef for all we know!

I'm not "saying" anything. I don't know and neither do you. Presumably the OP and/or her DH might have cooked traditional British Christmas fare on an alternative day?

Who knows anything until the OP responds?

I think that's pretty much the norm, certainly among a lot of my friends. I'm sure there are some extended families that all get on well but even the logistics of having space to accommodate everyone and even chairs for them all to sit on, often mean that couples socialise separately with each side of the family. It's definitely not unusual.

You're definitely not being over sensitive there's a whole body of work behind that comment and 100% you need to address it with him before the baby comes because that man has not fully worked through his conditioning. Sounds to me like he is scared your child will be 'too Asian' which is why he wants to moderate your family's influence at important events 🤮

Is he helping with the shopping , food prep , presents, cooking and serving and cleaning up ?

But he insists on seeing his family every year whereas some years I haven't seen mine and that's annoyed me too so now I insist on seeing mine.

I'm sorry OP but I think he's the racist. He's fine with you when to all intents and purposes you are a white woman in your behaviour. But as soon as he has to face that you are not actually a white woman and have an Asian family his racism comes spilling out.

So you suggesting that you host the families separately is you being racist against his family, but when you have to see his and not your own that's...what? I'd call it racism. Or he's just a controlling husband and is using race to get you to go back in your box.

I began by saying he is racist. By the time I've written the above I've decided he's a racist, controlling hypocrite.

He'd better have a damn good explanation for his comment or you need to think about the future when there's a mixed race child involved.

My family have met his twice - at our wedding, and at DS’s first birthday.

This is why Mumsnet is so fascinating, as I grew up totally different.

My mums side of the family and my dads side of the family got on great. Many family get togethers, holidays, most Christmases together.

My paternal grandmother used to regularly visit my maternal grandmother when she was very ill in the weeks up to her death. My mum was very grateful for her MIL.

OP, - you were not unreasonable to suggest hosting separately, obviously I grew up differently but I wouldn’t find it offensive. Your DH’s comments were ridiculous.

I’m Black, my husband is white and I genuinely cannot imagine him saying anything like this to me. Because he likes and respects me, but mainly because he’s not an idiot.

How on earth have you managed to have a relationship, marry and prepare to have a child with someone when This isn't the first time he's done something like this - any discussion involving race tends to end badly.

More importantly, WHY would you do this? Your mixed race child will have a parent who has racial ‘issues’ (I’m being generous, here). You felt this was a good idea?

How Christmas is organised is pretty much irrelevant to the real issue. Different families organise Christmas in myriad different ways - everyone together, alternating years, there are dozens of solutions and they work for different people. Doesn’t matter, you can figure that out.

The real issue is that you’re a woman of colour who appears to have sleep walked into a relationship with a bigot. Wake up.

He might be worried that his family will be pushed aside when baby arrives? An exuberant, fun loving, young set of in-laws versus his older, smaller family with a dad who has dementia and hearing difficulties, who are inevitably likely to be more child-centric? It sounds like he has some sort of concerns underlying what he's said?

I don't think the situation is irredeemable but you need to talk, talk, talk.

Perfectly normal to have both sides of the family together for celebrations and also perfectly normal for people to choose to celebrate separately.

I don't know anyone who separates hosting Xmas based on age though. I do think your dh shouldn't have said it's about race but I wonder if he thinks his 4 family members will think that's why you've chosen to not invite them all together and want them separate instead.

If it's an option I'd personally give the four people on dh side of the family a choice, tell them you're hosting your family too but it will be full of games and music and have traditional Indian food and ask his family if they'd like to join with that celebration or if they'd prefer a quiet one separately with a traditional roast then that's fine too.

My dhs side, if they separated by age then his grandchildren would have missed out on some very happy memories with their great great gran Six generations ageing from 97 to 7 months having fun together and believe me, if moaning we're a sport his gran could win a medal but we always made sure she could join in with the whole family and just told her what to expect at celebrations so she could make her own mind and when her dementia got really bad and she was in a home, one person agreed to not drink so that she could still be included and taken home early if needed.

We are both white and definitely have separate gatherings. Can you have a big Christmas with your family on boxing day? Then suggest the opposite next year to make it fair. Absolutely no reason to blend families, especially if one family is as dull as dishwater quieter. Him insisting on blending is insane. His family aren't more important than yours because they are white