To be Concerned about husband's reaction to Xmas planning making it about race

[anonymousxmasposter]

I'm a British Asian woman married to a white man, and I'm currently pregnant with our first child. I need some advice about a situation that's really bothering me.

I suggested hosting Christmas this year but separately for our families - mainly because of logistics. My family is quite large (10 people), younger (mostly teens and twenty-somethings), and celebrates with music, games, and a lively atmosphere. His family is small (4 people), much older (60s-80s), more traditional, and quieter. His father has dementia and hearing difficulties, which makes large gatherings challenging for him.

When I suggested hosting our families separately to make everyone more comfortable, my husband immediately accused me of wanting an "Asian-only Christmas where we just do our own Asian thing." I was shocked because it had nothing to do with race - I was thinking about space, comfort levels, and very different celebration styles. My sisters boyfriend is white too, so it wasn't about excluding anyone based on race.

I ended up feeling so guilty that I changed my plans to invite his family, but I'm deeply troubled by his response and how quickly he turned a practical concern into a racial accusation. This isn't the first time he's done something like this - any discussion involving race tends to end badly.

I'm especially worried as we're expecting a child. What if our child had heard that comment?

Im also keen to hear from people in same race relationships, for Xmas if you were hosting at your home, do you also blend families - was it weird of me to say I didn't want to do that?

Whether you have or haven't what the hell do I do with this as feel really alone with this and could use some advice as I have no one I can talk to about this without judgement.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jftr.12504#:~:text=Ultimately%2C%20these%20ties%20may%20push,of%20mixed%2Drace%20family%20members.

And the white supremacists with Asian partners: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-asian-fetish.html

I could go on. If you’re genuinely interested in this topic, read Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race by Reni Eddo-Lodge.

I suspect you’re not interested in learning anything, and just want to make statements like people in interracial marriages in 2024 are not racists without having to reflect on them. In which case, fill your boots.

For the record, I’m a Black woman in an interracial marriage. Family integration hasn’t been difficult, and difficulties haven’t been exaggerated. We’re very happy. So, no, I don’t think every person in an interracial marriage has a good chance of being a closet racist. I recognise that being with someone of a different race does not mean a person isn’t racist, and I think OP’s partner, specifically, is an out and out racist.

I've read why I'm no longer talking to white peppe about race,

Please tell me why you think he's racist? I'm NOT being dumb but everyone in the thread has opinions and seems to be name calling with not much explanations

@ThatTealViewer in other words, people can say racially insensitive things without being a full on racist or do you not agree?

I'm not defending him at all, I'm just begging someone fully explain and I appreciate you keep saying I'm asking people to repeat but I'm yet to find WHY people think what he said is racist as opposed to racially insensitive and inappropriate

@ThatTealViewer to add he was accusing ME of being divide wanting an Asian only Xmas.

I obviously wasn't but that's how he felt.

Could it be he just feels excluded?

I'm begging you explain this to me

Honestly Op @anonymousxmasposter

You are your own worst enemy.
Never listen to anything anyone is saying but equally don't let things go like a dog with a bone
You seem to be going round and round
What do you want from strangers on the internet?

You have been given advice chose to ignore it but then keep asking for advice.

You are hard work.

Are you like this with other people in real life?
You mentioned you don't have friends because they are 'shit'.

Why are they 'shit'.

Perhaps you need to reflect.

@Gummybear23 I am asking people WHY they are calling him names, yet all you are saying is why am I ground and round.

Many posts are quick to calll him racist but not actually explaining WHY they think this,

Sorry but I'm Not hard work and if some genuinely wanted to help they would say why instead of name calling.

Would you call names IRL and not tell the person why they've been called that?

What outcome do you want?

You and your DH argument style is really toxic and unresolvable. He believes he has said enough to explain his actions and you keep on and on and on because you don't think it is enough. Neither of you are in the right on this, it's a piss poor communication method.

If you don't believe me you are doing it to PP here too. It's very unhealthy for you and the people you do it to. Whatever anyone says you ignore them, you do not listen you just ask the same questions over and over.

Not everything can be rationalized and explained to your personal satisfaction.

If you think repeatedly saying and doing racist things (as you have stated your husband has) doesn’t make someone a ‘full on racist’, then I’m not sure what to tell you. What do you think racism is? Is anything short of chasing you down the street, screaming racial epithets merely ‘racially insensitive’ and not ‘full on racism’?

However, if you’ve read Reni Eddo-Lodge and you’re still as baffled as you claim to be, then it’s unlikely that anything anyone on this thread says is going to bring you clarity. She’s significantly better at this than anyone here.

And you do keep asking people to repeat themselves. My comments explaining why he’s racist are still there, along with everyone else’s. I also linked you to a book on abusive men, which you don’t fancy reading because it’s so long, so I literally posted relevant screenshots, which you’ve completely ignored.

You don’t need to beg anyone to do anything, you can scroll up and just reread the thread if you somehow feel you’ve missed every single explanation. But, you’re not doing that because (as you’ve admitted) you don’t like what’s been said and you want different answers. To claim that isn’t the case and that ‘you just want to understand’ is disingenuous to a degree that’s just irritating, now.

I think this thread is particularly winding me up because, as a WOC in an interracial relationship, I don’t understand how you’ve just let all this happen. You dated this man. You saw he had all these issues. You went with it, anyway.

And, as someone who knows how tricky life can be for a mixed race child in this country, I am fucking furious that you’ve decided that this racist misogynist prick was an appropriate father for one. Mess up your own life as much as you want, but that poor kid didn’t ask for this.

I’m done with this thread.

Obviously they think he is racist as:

• his hair trigger response is to jump to othering you/making racially insensitive comments centring your race

- he gets stressed talking about race issues and won't say why - thinks people's experiences of racism is overreacting - his dad went out of his way not to speak to anyone in your family at a family gathering - won't even try and spend Xmas with your family - doesn't see things and refuses to see them from a non white perspective - has said he won't talk to your mixed race daughter about race or race issues - says you focus on race too much - his family aren't open to eating your cultures food (doesn't sound like he does either?)

He is clearly unwilling to move beyond ~I Don't See Colour, Not Everything Is About Race~ thinking and denies poc lived experiences of racism
What does he think about BLM or migrant issues or slurs/insensitive terms for Pakistanis, Chinese people, travellers etc...Surely you would know and that would inform your view..

But it's by the by he has a history of not seeing your perspective and you'd drive me nuts as a partner dragging arguments on for days and days
You've said you aren't going to leave him
So what are you going to do?

Your options are, imo as a mixed black/asian/white woman married to white man:
If you genuinely believe he is not racist just ignorant, drop the argument and move on.
Become more chill wrt race issues in front of him. He's never going to be a social justice warrior or even open to your opinion. Why even bother?
Hugely important imo: Make more of an effort to do more Indian cultural stuff. Stop centering him and his family and his friends, do your own stuff and make sure your family is equal

Thanks for every single comment on this thread.

I know some posters have got so angry at me and I'm sorry,

I think I'm just beyond devastated and feel absolutely sick right now.

I can't face my reality.

But thank you all, even the posters who have got mad at me.

I'm currently working through this with my therapist and hope to find a way out soon x

@anonymousxmasposter I think you need to take out the race aspect and look at your relationship based on the emotional and mental levels (as opposed to sexual, financial, physical etc). He is abusing you. Threatening to leave for two weeks if you dare ask for answers is textbook abuse. The feeling of being confused, upset, wondering if only you could word things differently, understand better, use the right tone or find the right time to discuss, to try and change yourself but not understanding which part to change is absolutely the classic response of an abused person. Notice I'm using the words classic and textbook. What you are going through, how he is behaving has been written about so many times it probably runs into thousands of articles. Your situation is NOT unique.

However. Sometimes it takes a while for reality to kick in and I can see you are not quite ready for reality. And actually that is okay. You have started the process by coming here and that is the important bit. The other important bit is to continue reading up on these dynamics and watching his behaviours. The day you realise that your relationship is actually very, very bad please do not hesitate to come back here and post again. We will be waiting ❤

I wonder if his language was clumsy and he meant "culture" rather than "race"? Imagine it's a white couple, and she (a Smith) wants "a Smith Christmas," while he (a Jones) wants "a Jones Christmas", and that's just about the culture of each family and what they traditionally do at Christmas time? I'm Asian too and would feel hurt if I'd interpreted it as you have, but I'd be more inclined to assume that's what he meant unless he has a history of making comments with a racist undertone.

While I agree with @ThatTealViewer (in all that she has written) I think that for OP the issue of whether her dh “is” or “is not” racist is a bit of a red herring. The fact of the matter is that he is an absolutely crapulent husband and father. He is a stuffy, demanding, self satisfied, touchy prick of a man who will say anything to shut OP down and win an argument or get out of doing the husband work that good husbands love to do: caring for us, making our lives easier, supporting our pregnancies and our newborn children.

I mean come the fuck on OP’s DH could be British Indian and culturally aligned with her and on the strength of what she reports he would still be a shitty husband. Racism and use of race to shut OP down is just on axis of his shitty treatment.

I agree

I get why you wanted to separate it out. My ex and I never hosted christmas but i’d have done the same. As my side would be expecting traditional roast, my ex’s side would rather traditional Indian food and don’t exchange gifts or recognise christmas in that way. Combining the two would just wouldn’t work well.

I agree, I mean you see thread after thread on here this time of year about clashing families. His dad just sounds like he prefers smaller gatherings, more socially awkward around people he doesn’t know that well. And many people would prefer to spend Christmas more comfortable with people they do know. Many people would prefer a certain cuisine, or just what they are used to. Christmas is a holiday where many like to have things the same, turkey (don’t dare do lamb or beef instead), or christmas is ruined as MIL didn’t serve yorkshire puddings and you always have yorkshire puddings! Race doesn’t have to come into it.

Race doesn’t have to come i to it but it did come into it in a very hostile and divisive way. Not because of OP’s plan which simply took in the different families’ age, style, preference, disability as ways of organizing the parties but in OP’s husband’s approach. His statements were a rhetorical attack on her using her race/cultural identity and accusing her of separatism and unpleasantly selfish intentions. You just can’t handwave away the racism in his words by pretending that this was just a discussion of holiday roasts vs curry. That is like saying Trump wasn’t making a racist attack when he accused Haitians of killing and eating pets. Was he just discussing different approaches to puppies? No: he was making a racist attack on a community.

Taking out all the complexities of this situation and just looking at the comment by your DH about wanting an ‘Asian Xmas’ because you intend to make only food your family eats and likes.

If DH is so convinced his dementing DH would be just fine with a joint celebration (and I agree with you I think its a crap idea for someone with dementia to be away from their everyday surroundings and in the company of over excited kids and teens and unfamiliar people) , is there a compromise - ie food that are enjoyable for both sides of the family? I always provide alternatives when I’m catering to different cultures. A lot of people would not be able to enjoy some of the things that I’ve grown up eating such as chopped herring (a rough pate made with pickled minced fish mixed with egg, white vinegar and dill.) or gefilte fish balls (boiled minced fish balls). They may or may not want to try it and may absolutely hate it, so I don’t want people to go home hungry. Can there be alternatives to your cuisine that DHs family would eat? If the joint celebration is a disaster for his parents then he may see that your idea of separate celebrations is the best.