To be Concerned about husband's reaction to Xmas planning making it about race

[anonymousxmasposter]

I'm a British Asian woman married to a white man, and I'm currently pregnant with our first child. I need some advice about a situation that's really bothering me.

I suggested hosting Christmas this year but separately for our families - mainly because of logistics. My family is quite large (10 people), younger (mostly teens and twenty-somethings), and celebrates with music, games, and a lively atmosphere. His family is small (4 people), much older (60s-80s), more traditional, and quieter. His father has dementia and hearing difficulties, which makes large gatherings challenging for him.

When I suggested hosting our families separately to make everyone more comfortable, my husband immediately accused me of wanting an "Asian-only Christmas where we just do our own Asian thing." I was shocked because it had nothing to do with race - I was thinking about space, comfort levels, and very different celebration styles. My sisters boyfriend is white too, so it wasn't about excluding anyone based on race.

I ended up feeling so guilty that I changed my plans to invite his family, but I'm deeply troubled by his response and how quickly he turned a practical concern into a racial accusation. This isn't the first time he's done something like this - any discussion involving race tends to end badly.

I'm especially worried as we're expecting a child. What if our child had heard that comment?

Im also keen to hear from people in same race relationships, for Xmas if you were hosting at your home, do you also blend families - was it weird of me to say I didn't want to do that?

Whether you have or haven't what the hell do I do with this as feel really alone with this and could use some advice as I have no one I can talk to about this without judgement.

The truth is that your dh is not ready to be the father to a mixed child with a different culture.
My cousin is married to a lady of Nigerian origin.
Before they married they had extensive discussions about how they were going to navigate an interracial relationship particularly in terms of bringing up the children.
They discussed the wedding, naming the children ( as cousin’s wife wanted her kids to have a Nigerian middle name) .
My cousin understood that his mixed children would not have the same experience as he had ( him being a white male) and would likely experience racism.
My cousin and his wife are happily married

Op’s dh wants to leave the ‘race’ issue.to his wife . I pity those kids

This evening he said he is going to take a break for two weeks if this happens again where I drag something out because it's not healthy.

this is totally unacceptable and if you don’t react to it you are basically giving him a green light to continue this bullshit.
i would be telling him to get out of your house and take the 2 weeks now.
i would be talking this through at length with your councillor as when are you due and this behaviour will escalate and l ramp up land you will be much more vulnerable

Codlingmoths. I’d be leaving him and going to my DPs for 2 weeks (at least). I’d be telling him why and then let him see if he realises he needs to shape up or you will be reconsidering this relationship. How he reacts to being left to ‘think’ will be revealing . How much is he prepared to fight to improve his marriage and commitment and involvement to his baby, once they have been born. OP needs to show that she will not put up with this.

With the best will in the world, your DH is not going to change. Stop trying to make him understand, he simply doesn't want to and he won't however much you keep on at him. He has told you this quite plainly from what you have said

The only way you will get change is if you make it yourself. How you do that is entirely up to you of course and depends on whether you want to remain is this dreadful situation or if you want to give yourself and your baby the best chance in life.

You can't psychoanalyise him out of this, no amount of therapy speak will work.

@CovertPiggery I agree but he's given me an ultimatum and right now being pregnant feeling awful amount all other things - leaving I just don't have the strength for.

I appreciate Mumsnet have said this throughout the thread but if anyone has advice aside from leaving and has perhaps been in a similar situation I'd love to hear

@5128gap honestly his family as sweet and kind to me, I have nothing against them.

I just don't want to put my family in a position of making their Xmas awkward. I know my family well and I know 100% they'd prefer it to be just them.

I've also had family feel his dad is sometimes off with them and this is usually because his dad is poor socially unless had a drink. He won't be drinking as he'll be driving so I'm worried about that too.

@pikkumyy77 I explained to him yesterday I don't feel like he loves me and I feel stupid, lacking confidence, undervalued and dismissed. He didn't reply, we were both angry. He just said this has to stop as it's not healthy and if it happens again he will go away somewhere.

I haven't bought it up again I'll just wait to speak to counsellor now

so you are going to sit and be sad miserable and lonely in silence.

when is baby due ?

@OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon February

I do understand where you're coming from.

I reacted the same way when I was given the same advice. All I wanted was for people to say it was my fault and all I needed to do was X, Y, Z and everything would be ok. Leaving is scary. I can only imagine how much harder it seems when you're pregnant.

I think most people saying to think about leaving have been in a similar situation and that's why they are saying that.

I do know it's not easy and I hope you can reach out to your friends/family for support. It sounds like you have good people around you who would listen to you.

@CovertPiggery there's defo good people around but they will start to resent him for hurting me and it won't help which is why I don't wish to involve any friends or family

When you say it won’t help, what do you mean, though? As I suspect you mean it won’t help you because you want to stay with your husband, whatever happens. You have family that actually loves and respects you, go to them and let them help you.

People who love you SHOULD resent someone who hurts you. YOU should resent someone who hurts you. It’s really worrying that you don’t.

I posted a link to ‘Why Does He Fo That?’ a few times, yesterday. Are you willing to read it?

@ThatTealViewer I started reason to thank you but it's a full on novel! It will take time

@Shhhthedogssleeping thank you out talking to my mom is just going to ruin the relationship she has with him. I really don't see the point.

I've considered speaking to his mom about it but she's so placid and conflict avoidance that it'll never work. She will just say something like we just get on with it.

I also think these are learned behaviours he has, he is adamant his parents are happy but whenever his mom wants to bring anything to his dad she says she didn't because he will get cross. Even things in his best interest.

So the point is, he sees happiness as putting up and accepting people for who they are. Because that's what he's been shown

But he’s not doing that, he’s not accepting you one bit.

It’s a book, yes. A few relevant excerpts.

You understand your cage and your keeper really well. That is something you have worked hard and faithfully to do. But understanding that the bars are irin and the keeper is sad doesn’t make the cage tolerable. You are on a journey to understanding what life you have to sacrifice to pretend everything is ok. He will accept nothing less than total capitulation to his whims and unreasonable thoughts and actions. His hostility must be respected or you myst collude with him when he insists it was just a joke. His moods are righteous and reasonable and yours are signs of disease—you are crazy, mental, sulky, abusive.

It is going to take you a while, perhaps, to accept what we are saying. A while and a lot if pain. Because he is going to keep hurting you as long as you stay.

Experience is a dear teacher. But men will have no other. —Ben Franklin

How I got through living with an emotionally unavailable person with no insight into his own or anyone else’s feelings or behaviour was to feel lonely, depressed, unheard and sad. For 23 years. I did eventually get the strength to leave. My biggest regret is wasting so many years feeling less than and having my confidence and self-esteem worn away to a wafer thin, fragile shell. Once I was away from him, I built up my life from scratch in my mid-40s. For 20 years I’ve grown in strength, in my ability to be able to cope with life on my own, to have made wonderful friends and to feel happy and at peace . I wish I’d done it when my DC were small. His influence in their lives has been negative and a very bad role model regarding what a healthy, mutual partnership should be.

Men forcing themselves on slaves is really not that comparable to a modern context.

Generally speaking, people in interracial marriages in 2024 are not racists.They are making a life and having children they love and support with this other person.

Yes, there can sometimes be cultural integration issues. Family integration can be difficult at the best of times and the more differences in upbringing and assumptions there are, the more any difficulties can be exaggerated.

People on MN are altogether too ready to think every person in an interracial marriage has a good chance of being a closet racist.

For all we know, the OPs family are racists and have made her dh, unbeknownst to her, feel unwelcome, and that is the source of his comment. Why not jump to that interpretation which makes as much, or more, sense?

I'm in a mixed marriage (I'm white, he is Indian) we tend to do separate events for our families because they're just so different. Like your situation my family is tiny, quiet, never any dramas and like to do things like theatre, going to resteraunts for birthdays etc (were a bitbboring really ha ha) his side are the complete opposite huge, loud, a few dramas here and there and massive parties for celebrations. We have merged very occasionally for things but generally keeping it separate just works for us. Neither of us find it weird. Our parents get on but they are so different they wouldn't want to hang out or be friends with each other if we hadn't got married and I think that's fine. Nothing to do with race though and everything to do with completely different personalities and likes/dislikes. Maybe he thinks you don't want your family to spend time with his family and don't want to share his traditions etc. Between me and my husband we have our own in jokes about our different cultural differences and he will often joke himself about his Asian heritage or my white British ways of doing things but it's nothing serious and is a mutual ribbing we give each other in a fun way and is not something we would do to other people as we wouldn't know how they would perceive it or if they would take offence. If its not something you talk about or share a laugh with occasionally then it is strange he would bring race up in that context and if it's hurtful to you you should definitely bring that up with him but I think I would first want him to clarify what he meant by that statement before doing that. You need to understand what he meant first.

I appreciate Mumsnet have said this throughout the thread but if anyone has advice aside from leaving and has perhaps been in a similar situation I'd love to hear

OP there is no magic wand.

We can't change your husband.

Your situation is very specific. This thread started two days ago and has over 350 posts. If there was anyone here who has been in yours or similar shoes they would have posted by now.

We can't fix this for you - whether 'this' is Christmas, racism (his or what he perceives to be yours), or your marriage.

All you can get from MN is opinions and ideas you may not have thought of. But the ultimate choice is yours and you have to make it. If leaving is non negotiable (and you have every right to make that so, you don't have to leave just because a lot of MNers are saying that that seems to be the answer from their POV) then you have to decide how you're going to move forward. Are you going to let this go? Are you going to try talking to your husband again? What do you want to happen?

We can't give you what you want from us. What we can't do is make anything different. He is who he is and he said what he said. How you deal with that is entirely on you. This is your marriage, your husband, and the current issue in the end has to be resolved between you.

OP, something I have learned over many years is that it is exactly things like Christmas where many people get weirdly over-wrought.They become completely over blown.

I've even noticed this about myself and most people would say I am a very low key person. One of the most upset moments Ive had with my dh involved him making it impossible for me to stay at a family event at Christmas that I was looking forward to. He wasn't being unreasonable, but my emotions went crazy. And even years later when I think about it I feel upset.

I would also say, that with people who tend to be hyper-rational - they are really at their worst when their emotions come into play. They don't have great emotional control or insight under those circumstances. Blurting out rather primitive representations of how they are feeling about things is a common response.

Well have a think about what YOUR child will be shown, in terms of modelling a relationship that will be their benchmark for their future.
Honestly I think he doesn’t respect you and it’s often very difficult when a baby is born. This should be one of the happiest times in your life, but it’s also hard and you need a true partnership.

@Hopper123 thank you, we do occasionally joke but his jokes aren't so funny! Also, this was in a heated moment so I'm baffled at how he still sticks by using jokes at the other persons expense is appropriate in such a situation.

He won't back down in terms of his intention and insists there was non hidden meaning other that he felt I was not being inclusive, and therefore exclusive and as my family are the same race and culture he decided to comment on how it felt like because I said we will be cooking Indian food and they may not like it, that's the comment that made him feel I wanted an "India only Xmas" where we do our "own little Asian thing"

@Gymnopedie thank you. I'm not leaving, I'm going to discuss with a counsellor and then work out what's best. My appointment is today.

Will it bring it up with him? I'm bless my counsellor can give me a strategy to do so then no.

I'm still upset by it and still don't feel it's resolved but this is the big issue with us, when I drag things out for days he sees it as me being unfair but I can't help feeling something isn't resolved. He hasn't thought about WHY he dragged it on for days! Just sees me being awkward