To be Concerned about husband's reaction to Xmas planning making it about race

[anonymousxmasposter]

I'm a British Asian woman married to a white man, and I'm currently pregnant with our first child. I need some advice about a situation that's really bothering me.

I suggested hosting Christmas this year but separately for our families - mainly because of logistics. My family is quite large (10 people), younger (mostly teens and twenty-somethings), and celebrates with music, games, and a lively atmosphere. His family is small (4 people), much older (60s-80s), more traditional, and quieter. His father has dementia and hearing difficulties, which makes large gatherings challenging for him.

When I suggested hosting our families separately to make everyone more comfortable, my husband immediately accused me of wanting an "Asian-only Christmas where we just do our own Asian thing." I was shocked because it had nothing to do with race - I was thinking about space, comfort levels, and very different celebration styles. My sisters boyfriend is white too, so it wasn't about excluding anyone based on race.

I ended up feeling so guilty that I changed my plans to invite his family, but I'm deeply troubled by his response and how quickly he turned a practical concern into a racial accusation. This isn't the first time he's done something like this - any discussion involving race tends to end badly.

I'm especially worried as we're expecting a child. What if our child had heard that comment?

Im also keen to hear from people in same race relationships, for Xmas if you were hosting at your home, do you also blend families - was it weird of me to say I didn't want to do that?

Whether you have or haven't what the hell do I do with this as feel really alone with this and could use some advice as I have no one I can talk to about this without judgement.

I'd be sitting him down and asking for a serious conversation, because his attack is weird and racist. I'm white, married to a white man, and our parents have met twice (and never for Christmas!). It seems so weird for him to jump to assuming that you want to exclude his family, when it sounds very much like his father in particular won't enjoy it.

Is he being radicalised online at all? I'd worry that he's had some sort of Farage worming into his ear, and is now expecting you and your child to completely jettison your family's culture and traditions in favour of his own.

Or, being generous, maybe it's just a reaction to underlying resentment that's been building - jealousy and sadness, knowing that his parents are coming to the end of their lives, and in knowing that his time with his dad having any comprehension is limited. Perhaps he has nostalgia for his childhood Christmases if they were very traditional, and resents diverging away from that (particularly as you've described it as 'just another day' for yourself).

Whatever the reason though, he's acted like a tosspot.

If you do end up hosting everyone, make it very clear he's expected to pull his weight in terms of cooking, cleaning, etc.

Very normal. I say this as a family member of a very ethnically diverse family. The logistics are a nightmare on sheer numbers alone. Your suggestion was perfectly reasonable, his response very odd.

I think you need to talk it out with him and work through it. As a white man he may not appreciate how aggressive this sort of comment can feel. Have the conversation from a place of kindness and education, and see how he responds. There are plenty of books on the subject that can help broach it.

is that he put it? ‘Little POC thing’? That is very racist and patronising and othering. Really horrible.

together with the comment about being allowed to invite who you would like it sounds as though your husband does see your marriage as a partnership. At some point in an eight year relationship you would become a unit - what shall we do for Christmas. Not separate invite lists and your family and you doing ‘little POC thing’.

honestly I’d be looking at couples counselling pronto. Preferably pre baby as this is a core issue in your relationship - you need to a be a strong partnership for young children. Have you discussed race and cultural issues which will impact your child? Is he Christian? Does he want to have his child christened? Would you be avoiding sending your child to a Church of England school?

She didn't say she was concerned about his family "diluting" anything. She just doesn't want to force her family to go along with what she perceives to be the boring celebration that his family prefer, and she didn't think that his elderly relatives would enjoy a livelier gathering. That has nothing to do with race.

And lots of people celebrate Christmas as a cultural festival rather than a religious one.

she didn't think that his elderly relatives would enjoy a livelier gathering. That has nothing to do with race.

So she should ask them and find out, not just make assumptions.

I will add something else. Years ago we had a small gathering and DH did not tell his side of the family anyone from my side would be there.

His mom was lovely real friendly and accommodating, his dad didnt speak to any of my family but instead did speak to my DH friend for the whole event.

They picked up on this and while didn't say anything negative I know by what they're like they would have probably assumed it's because of their race, it's how POC often feel when situations like this happen,

I've never raised it with DH as I honestly didn't know how to and also have no evidence o the situation other that their word for it which without evidence he liked to dispute everything.

I also figured what good could come of it, but it has always left me on edge for bringing family together too - aside from genuinely thinking each side would prefer independent as I consider it for my own perspective and I don't want to mix with any family Xmas )DH sees my outlook as selfish)

The dad might be shy with strangers or he might be a racist. Who knows? If it’s the former board games and card games can help break down barriers. If it’s the latter he’ll turn down the invitation.

I can see why he got annoyed as it did look like you were slighting his family and putting preteen e over yours and using a flimsy excuse of their age as the reason why.

Why do you want to deliberately create division between both your families?

I would be annoyed if I was your husband.

So you've mentioned a couple of times about how talking about race with him doesn't go well - have you sat down and talked about how he needs to work on this so that your child doesn't pick up on this? Because that sounds like the kind of thing you need to address head on before the baby is here... what do you mean he gets stressed?

@Amarige can you elaborate - why doesn't sound like I'm putting my family first I'm genuinely curious as I want to get to the bottom of this with him.

I think he generally gets annoyed at how much I protect my family

There's absolutely nothing wrong with hosting one side of the family one day and the other on a different day, but I'm not sure how (logistically) you can volunteer to "host Christmas" and then have two separate groups. Did he assume that you wanted to have your family there for Christmas dinner and his at a different time/day (therefore essentially "hosting Christmas" for your side of the family and not his)? I think you'd be better off NOT hosting Christmas for anyone outside of your household and choosing two equally insignificant days (not Christmas Eve or Day, not NYE or Day, and not Boxing Day) near Christmas for the two get-togethers.

my husband immediately accused me of wanting an "Asian-only Christmas where we just do our own Asian thing." This is completely bizarre if he himself is not Asian. Does he think he's not invited to Christmas at his own house? And why is he saying "we"?

More generally, though, you've got to just discuss the matter with him openly and each listen to what the other has to say; we can all guess at what he's thinking and what lies at the root of his comments but only he can tell you. And it's also pretty important that he understand that you are upset by his comments, and why.

We've always blended our families at Christmas

OP you really need to talk to him. Sit him down at a specific quiet moment. I'd even tell him you feel hurt and disrespected, and you think your marriage might be in trouble so if he refuses to talk to you then and there, you should get marriage counselling then.

Did you even tell him why you felt it would be best for his father - frame it that way as you looking out for his father?

@IdylicDay why do you think my marriage is in trouble?

I often feel hurt and disrespected but put it down to being too sensitive I guess as an avoidance mechanism

Could it be that with more people there, your dh actually is relieved of doing the work of hosting his (perhaps not very lively and enjoyable) family, but means he still gets to tick the box of having done his duty?

I know that Dh finds his family tricky, and tries to arrange seeing them in ways that means he can disappear and not have to actually deal with them (sudden urgency to mow the lawn or trim the hedges as soon as they arrive). He finds it stressful to entertain them one-on-one and would rather it be a larger group setting so he frankly can avoid them and hope someone else does the talking. Could it be similar and he’s made a fuss about race to deflect?

You stated it's not the first time he's said something about race you don't like. Not sure why now you have an issue with it because your having his child.

I don't think it's wrong for him to want to have a traditional Christmas with his family around. You need to be more accommodating and open to his culture and wants

@ElatedShark I never made this about race and culture, he did.

I am open to his culture and wants which is why I encourage us rotating between families each year but the dynamics are different and I believe (certainly my family through knowing them very well) would relax more.

I know I would too, it's a lot of people to contend with. I never told him it's about race so I don't know what you mean I need to incorporate his traditions too when I literally see his family more than mine for Sunday dinner and go to his family every Christmas until recently after we made an agreement to rotate and then when it got to my family's year he decided he didn't want to. I thought it was extremely unfair so started splitting up at Xmas

Also just wanted to say I don't think OPs husband is racist, he's just making sure his culture and family are not being pushed aside.

My cousin (English) dated an Asian woman and a similar thing happened where she would try to force her culture on us and ignore our own eg one remembrance Sunday she started on about how a few asains had also taught and should be honored as equally as the British ones. When we pointed out that ALL who fought were being honored she wouldn't let it go, ruined the same.

I say this to say you BOTH need to take time to enjoy each other's cultures/traditions. Bring his to Asian celebrations, teach him your culture etc from now so it's not a shock to him when you want you child to learn more than just their white side heritage

I would go for same day with overlap as a compromise. His older family come in the morning for an Xmas brunch, yours arrive in the afternoon for the main meal. All eat together, then his family can go when they choose having had some time with you together and with everyone. Your family can stay later for the party fun.

Now THIS seems like a much more likely scenario, than anything else to me. English men are pretty useless at entertaining their own families, and all too often it falls to the wife/partner to do the 'entertaining', so having lots of people there, rather than just his own family, makes it easier for him to disappear, and then if his parents comment, he has the ready made excuse of, 'well, I had so many people to host, so couldn't spend all my time with you'.

Has anyone asked your in-laws what they would prefer?

You are right to be concerned. Quite a few people struggling with deafness combined with dementia would find a large, noisy, gathering of people they don't know well hard to deal with. I would have your DH ask them to see what they would like to do.

His comment was patronizing and nasty and I can see why you are upset.

I am not cooking twice, I suggested he visit his family for lunch while I prep and then he comes back and my family come to ours. This wasn't good enough

Sounds like u want things yr own way then r hurt when u r called out on it.

Having a baby is stressful and can bring out a lot of your own childhood baggage also people just tend to be a bit fed up / more irritable towards year end.

I’m with posters who think it’s more likely an underlying issue with HIMSELF
ie
he has issues with his own family and wants to dilute them / box tick time with them
or…
he is sad / jealous he doesn’t have a big clan or…
he maybe feels a bit out his comfort zone with just your extended family especially if they switch between languages a lot.

my DH could be described as easy going people pleaser but weirdly with me ONLY ME 🧐 he will double down on stuff like this that is just plain weird / crazy… I normally have to dig a bit to find out what the real issue is

Edit: saw your last update 😮 if he wants a roast for his family he can bloody well cook it.

Hi OP

I'm also a British Indian female, married to a white man, so fully sympathise with the challenges and confusion that can arise in cross-culture relationships, especially when it comes to wider family dynamics.

We don't have children but hope to one day, and I often already think about how we will navigate such issues as parents, so I can see why this situation coupled with you being pregnant has affected you so much.

It sounds like the specific issue here is that you have Family 1 which is larger, more boisterous and celebrates through games, music etc. whereas you have Family 2 which is smaller, calmer and prefers less going on, and these are the specific differences that drove you to think about planning separate, tailored Christmas events. But rather than considering those aspects of difference (which could be just as true if Families 1 and 2 were from the same culture/heritage), your husband has just boiled it down to the most basic, visible difference which is that Family 1 is Indian and Family 2 is English, which is incredibly disappointing and hurtful. It's probably him (wrongly) lashing out due to being triggered somehow by the suggestion of two different events and reminder that your families are different in their natures and preferences (part of which is down to different cultures). It's not a good reaction at all but I don't think it automatically makes him a "racist bigot".

The fact is that your families are from different cultures so this is going to have an impact throughout life, but this difference in culture does not then become the knee jerk answer/comment when issues pertaining to the wide spectrum of their differences arise, especially not when communicated with such sloppy/hurtful language like "Asian thing" (that's seriously not OK and he needs to be properly pulled up on that and dissect how he got there..).

There are so many threads about issues concerning two sets of in-laws because of how different they are, and that's before any cross-culture considerations, so he's wrong to just shout the "culture" card. It makes him sound like an idiot incapable of logical reasoning and hurts you.

Pare it back and talk to him about how he got there from the start of whatever conversation(s) you both had that resulted in him saying that, otherwise if it's not Christmas it will be Diwali or a family wedding or something else that brings this to the surface again.