35 and want to be married before kids

[YourLivelyRedBiscuit]

Boyfriend of 18 months desperate for children but I am not willing to do so without a commitment ie marry me.

I know that clock is ticking blabla but I frankly feel insecure without a legal commitment. I'm putting my body and career on the line.

I don't even mind doing small ceremony now then a big one later.

We are still in the process of buying a house and I would like this sorted first too.

He says he will marry me but I feel insecure as his actions don't entirely match his words.

I know that it could take a while to fall pregnant but I feel hurt that he would get engaged to his ex but seems to want to check if I have a working womb first.

If you are happy as you are, are independent and in your own home,
and not really bothered about having children, then I think you should stay exactly as you are.
Seriously.

A Greek wanting children before marriage? Very odd. Too many red flags

When someone tells you who they are, listen.

He's telling you that he's a shit. Leave.

If you plan on keeping your career and maintaining financial independence (maternity leave aside), then marriage makes no difference. Go ahead and have a baby.

If you want to become a SAHM / drop to part-time and become financially dependent on a man, then definitely get married first. You will be less shafted if the relationship fails (but still shafted as you will have to stand on your own two feet having lost significant earning potential).

Hold your ground. Marriage first. Then a baby. It's very simple and if he views you as his forever it won't be a problem. So many women give everything that a Marriage entails to a man without the actual legally binding contract.

He may well marry you after the baby comes. He very well may not. Why should he get to decide this?

Like I said. Hold your ground. It isn't an unreasonable request when houses with mortgages and children are already on the table.

Does he realise how important this is to you? And why? And what happened with his ex? I cared more about kids than marriage so had a house and was pregnant within 18 months of meeting DP and all still good after 10 years. DP's ex-fiance treated him awfully and think it put him off marriage. I don't think he is necessarily wrong to not want marriage but I think he should listen to how you feel about it and babies and compromise. And I agree with whoever said talk through exactly what having kids looks like to him and your roles

If you intend to get married I see no sense in delaying marriage, unless you aren't sure you want to be married. If that's the case then I certainly wouldn't buy a house or have a child together - those are both more complicated to untangle than a marriage.

I don't understand your boyfriend's position at all.

Without meaning to be negative it's not that simple. Throw illness and/or disability into the mix and it becomes much harder for both parents to maintain the same work schedule/earning capacity. I agree that if your planning to become a SAHM it's predictable you need the extra commitment but plans don't always go as anticipated.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/5201369-to-be-annoyed-im-not-in-partners-will

Ignore the thread title OP, but just read all of this OPs updates as it will give you a glimpse of your potential future if you don't stick to your guns.

This needs to be part of the curriculum for young girls tbh.

I totally agree the importance of marriage needs to be in curriculums.
You are doing the right thing. He does not appear to be the right man though.

He says he will marry me but I feel insecure as his actions don't entirely match his words.

Then absolutely don't have a kid with him

stand your ground

I don’t think the actual wedding is the be all and end all (know a few people who did the wedding part after the child) but 100% don’t have a kid with a person who isn’t 100% happy about marrying you, who hasn’t put a ring on your finger

I’m a bit more relaxed about the house buying, we bought our house before we got married, though I think we both knew that marriage was coming next even though it wasn’t explicit discussed

I’d say you’ll start trying for a baby next month if he goes down to the registry office with you tomorrow and book for a speedy wedding with two witnesses. You can have the big party when your finances are secure and you have your mortgage. If he’s not prepared to do that, you know where you stand.
Hell no to sacrificing your career to have a baby, unmarried, in a house he owns outright.

At 35, I wouldn’t be gambling with your fertility. It’s make your mind up time for him or you walk away.

its not a wedding that is important.
Its the piece of paper which is not just a piece of paper.

My point it I know people who got engaged then had a baby before they actually married. Wouldn’t be for me, but the intent was clearly there.

in OPs case there isn’t even the intent (yet)

I don't even mind doing small ceremony now then a big one later.
That will never happen. You will not have the money to spare to have a big wedding after having children if you will take 6 months to get rid of cc debt now.

He says he will marry me but I feel insecure as his actions don't entirely match his words.
That is the stand out point for me. What are the examples of this?

I would not hVe children without marriage. Engagement means nothing. And I would question whether he wanted it at all.

MARRIAGE is a big deal in Greek culture! I know, my partner is Greek too. These days, meeting each other's families really isn't the big deal it used to be unless there's an engagement then or soon after. By the way - children before marriage, IF this is a culturally traditional Greek family, would be a real NO. So it looks like he's playing about with his culture to his own ends here.

I don't know if he's British Greek or Greek Greek, but the latter can still be notoriously misogynistic about child-rearing and whose job that and keeping house, etc are.

Don't fanny about with 'waiting for a proposal' etc (no idea why this notion is still a thing) - make your terms clear. A register office wedding is quick and easy. If he won't, he's telling you what he really thinks.

So he's worried he'll commit via marriage and then there's an issue falling pregnant. You're worried you'll commit and he'll just keep stalling on marriage or even leave you once he's got the baby he wants. You're at a stalemate.

But you have the leverage. He wants his side more than you want yours. However you have more to lose if he doesn't keep his end of the bargain. Point out to him that marriages are reversible - and short marriages you tend to leave with what you put in so no concerns about running off with all his money. You go back to zero.

But you can't do that with a child. Once you become a parent, that's it, there's no going back. That's the difference, and that's why you have to 'win' this stalemate or break up.

Then leave the ball in his court. Either he doesn't want you AND the baby and is just using you as rent-a-womb, or he'll see sense about what he's asking of you. He's demanding a permanent commitment from you, while offering a temporary one back. The balance of obligation is way off.

Correct! Him claiming the cultural significance of her meeting his family and then utterly disregarding the rest of Greek family culture is a huge red flag.

The most important thing to do to protect yourself, and future children, is to keep your financial independence through keeping your income through working and building your assets ( such as co-owning the home). Marriage is no substitute for this.

Marriage advantages women if the man has substantially more assets or a substantially higher income. It’s not actually a particularly advantage if your assets and income are similar, or yours are higher. in fact divorcing can be an expensive pain in the arse in that situation.

It's lovely to see a post from a lady in this position who has some self respect. FWIW, I wouldn't have had children without being married. After 20 yrs together and no hint of unhappiness, ExH had a mid life crisis and left me for someone else. 200% character change that nobody who knew him well could have predicted. I worked for our company but wasn't a Director, sacked by him and then he tried to remortgage our house/fought me to keep it and orders me the commercial/totally fucking unsuitable properties we also had, to sell/live in with my toddler and baby. No thanks. Fought him all the way and am still comfortable from keeping that home. Also have a career I love which would never have happened without that affair. Good luck to you whatever the outcome.

This is the bit that worried me the most.

He doesn't seem all that focused on YOU, OP. It's all about the baby and the status that will bring (within his family maybe?) Bet he's not thinking about the status you'll lose and how he's going to help compensate for that

Unless you're financially secure in your own right i.e have significant savings, property, a stable income with good maternity benefits. Never have a child without the legal protection of marriage.

If you do. Make sure you have a backup plan finacially or what happens if you're left solo parenting. Yes you may get maintaince but you may not.

I made it clear from very early on, to my now DH I would not have children unless married. I also explained why. He completely understood. Marriage was never about romance to me. Still isn't. We're married for the mutral benefits and secruity. We're together because we love each other.

I've made it clear to him that should marriage no longer be of benefit to us and in fact be determinatal to our savings or other finacial secruity, we'll get divorced. Yet still be together obviously.

People need to see marriage for what it is without all the pressure and rubbish of weddings.

Rarer than hens teeth.

Has he ever been married before OP?

It can take a VERY long time/money/effort and beurocracy to divorce if so.

On the other hand, look at it from his point of view. He’s saved a huge deposit and is ready to buy a house. Happy to do it himself but OP wants in. But she doesn’t have a deposit and in fact, has debt that needs to be cleared.

And she’s insisting on being married and is ambivalent about kids. He really wants a family.

If it were him posting, we’d all be telling him not to do it.