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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

New nursery, unexpectedly high fees and an unreasonable manager

235 replies

Singlemommy2024 · 12/11/2024 22:58

I moved my DC to a new nursery after management changed at the previous one and I felt DC wasn’t being adequately challenged. I chose the new nursery because the owner’s child was friends with mine, and I wanted to try their new Montessori program as I’d heard good things about it. DC began in September, and after settling in days and a discussion about fees and policies, I paid a deposit to secure the spot.

Although I’d previously informed the manager DC was eligible for 15 funded hours she only explained that due to the Montessori curriculum they require kids attend a minimum of 20 hours. I was happy to do this as I’d always wanted DC to do more than 15 but the old nursery didn’t allow this for term time only students. We agreed that DC would attend 4 half days a week 8am - 1pm. The manager recommend the morning slot citing a more structured curriculum in the morning and I accepted what I thought was her professional opinion.

After the third settling-in day, the manager informed me I’d be receiving an invoice. Later that day I received an invoice for September fees, due that same day. Surprised, as I hadn’t expected a payment so soon, I planned to clarify this with her the following week. When she later confirmed it was correct, I explained I wasn’t prepared for this payment. She accepted a partial payment, with the balance paid the following week.

Shortly after, my schedule changed, so I asked if DC could switch from the 8am - 1pm slot to the 1 pm - 6 pm slot. The manager told me they only offered 8 am - 1 pm or 8 am - 6 pm slots, which was confusing since I recalled her mentioning both. Still, I agreed to three full days instead of 4 half days to keep my course schedule since my sister agreed to assist with payment and I’d get reimbursement from UC.

One week later, and one week to the due date I received an invoice for three full days, with payment due by Oct 1. Unable to pay in full right away, I made a partial payment and arranged a meeting at the Job Centre for assistance. By Oct 1, the manager emailed me at 4 am about the balance. I explained that I was actively working on it, yet she continued to pressure me for payment, even calling during nursery hours without updating me on DC’s well-being.

After my meeting at the Job Centre she coincidentally called me I explained I’d just left but was busy and would need to get back in contact with her. She ignored what I said and proceeded to threaten to suspend my child although she’d received partial payment for the month and is in receipt of 15 funded hours from the government. Due to this call I performed terribly in my telephone interview.

When I finally arranged the grant, I needed the nursery manager’s signature. She asked unnecessary questions, took a copy of my form without consent, and kept demanding confirmation of payment, despite clear evidence it would go directly to her account. I expressed my dissatisfaction but had to rush back to the Job Centre to ensure the payment would be processed that day to avoid losing DC’s space.

Afterward, I requested a meeting to provide feedback. The manager was defensive, reluctantly admitted to miscommunications but wouldn’t offer any flexibility for future payments, despite the unexpected costs I’d incurred. Additionally, she hadn’t given me a copy of the contract initially, which stated both session options, including 1 pm - 6 pm was on offer. The payment due date was also buried in a long paragraph, which I missed. Please note she didn’t state the afternoon slot was unavailable because the nursery was full either she just changed the policy without communicating it to parents.

Following this experience, I left a review detailing my concerns. Since then, the manager has been passive-aggressive toward both me and my sister, who occasionally picks up DC. My child has also complained about the manager’s child pushing and hitting them, which concerns me as I worry the child isn’t disciplined due to the staff’s connection to the manager.

OP posts:
Deadringer · 13/11/2024 10:47

You should have checked you could comfortably afford it before you moved your child. And your reasons for moving her seem quite silly to me. Yabvu

IVFmumoftwo · 13/11/2024 10:53

ThatRareUmberJoker · 13/11/2024 10:41

She does work

I was just suggesting that she isn't taking from the tax payer because she is obviously working otherwise she wouldn't get any help.

CountryGirlInTheCity · 13/11/2024 11:02

Then there seems to be this weird ethos in many nurseries that phonics is baaaaad.
Yet when they get to reception, they get a phonics test straight away - and the phonics teaching is fast and furious.

Some nurseries do teach phonics, and I’d choose a nursery that does teach phonics.

Teaching letter recognition and recall without having established that children have grasped the phase 1 phonics skills is bad. Phase 1 is for nursery - being able discriminate sounds, hearing sounds in the environment forms the foundation for segmenting and blending sounds to read. When the foundations are not in place there is zero point in trying to teach the higher tier stuff….Ive come across it time and time again as a reception teacher. Of course if you have a child who has this already and is spotting sounds in books and relating them to words etc, by all means go ahead and teach them but it really shouldn’t be the focus of a nursery. The phonics teaching in YR can only be fast and furious if all the basics are in place already. And then, yes I agree it’s fast and children with a good foundation in sounds fly through it and those who don’t need extra support and intervention to fill those missing gaps.

Also - they don’t have a phonics test on entry to YR! The official phonics test is at the end of Y1. On entry to YR children have a baseline assessment. There is a small component that assesses whether a child recognises any sounds and whether they can segment and blend but it’s really not a phonics test. And a good baseline assessment covers all aspects of the EYFS curriculum not just phonics and maths. Assessments really should be done within a play environment in the first few weeks of Reception. They form the basis of what knowledge and skills the teacher needs to teach each child next. They are an assessment not a test and no reception teacher would expect a child to have already reached a certain standard in phonics at the start.

Toottooot · 13/11/2024 11:04

As Taylor Swift sang ‘it’s me hi, I’m the problem it’s me.’

slashlover · 13/11/2024 11:11

Kool4katz · 13/11/2024 09:36

The only thing the OP has done wrong according to many posters is the heinous crime of being too poor to pay bills before they’re due. 🙄
**
“…focus on your child and in living within your means.”

A particularly nasty comment and clearly from someone who has never struggled financially. 😡

She couldn't afford to pay WHEN they're due, not before. She also didn't pay then publicly badmouthed them.

Paganpentacle · 13/11/2024 11:23

ThatRareUmberJoker · 13/11/2024 10:40

A lot of parents work especially mums and have to leave their children with childminders or nurseries. Some has to teach them if the parents don't have the time to. All they can do is encourage and mimic what they learn in nursery to support what they have done with the child.

Please. What a load of parp.
I've always worked full time.
Didn't stop me reading with my kids and teaching them.
Its parenting. You make time.

redalex261 · 13/11/2024 11:28

I don't know Montessori from Cannelloni and it's 13 years since I stopped paying nursery fees. However, they were always paid upfront. I particularly remember this as I was surprised by it at the time - as you say many services are paid for on completion - hairdo, car repair etc. and when discussing with colleagues they all told me this was normal for nurseries and childcare. On reflection I can see the reasons why.

At trial visits when discussing arrangements the admin went over fee and payment expectations VERY thoroughly. 😀 You can't really complain about them haranguing you for payment. They don't know you from Adam. You may be in good faith and intending to settle the overdue amounts ASAP but they are certain to have dealt with parents who have fobbed them off then defaulted on a month's fees - what can they do then? They can't take back the service they've provided or hold the child hostage. They are left with small claims court action - more expense and no guarantee of payment.

I get that it's embarrassing and stressful for you not to be able to pay what's due on time but that's not their problem.

As for the complaint about no longer offering an afternoon slot - you contracted for mornings then asked for a short notice amendment - they may have no afternoon only slots available as their business model may be based on different numbers of am, pm and full day attendees. If their pm slots were fully booked and all that was left was all day opening I wouldn't be offering you half of an all day slot as this would mean I might not be able to accept the next full time kid as you had half of that placement.

Don't try to push your kid through the curriculum early. It doesn't turn them into a little genius, it just makes them bored and disengaged when they have to sit through it again in school. If he/she is smart now they'll still be smart in 18 months!

Sawlt · 13/11/2024 11:31

Nursery bills to pay are as important, if not more impt than OP finances. (Other kids depending on nursery being open)

If a chunk of parents don’t pay, don’t pay on time, how will nursery pay salaries, taxes, rent etc??

Ruin their reputation with your own selfish problems, could shut the nursery where your child attends.

short sighted, stupid, selfish.

Orangelight23 · 13/11/2024 11:32

You've sent your child to a nursery you can't afford because you wanted them to be more challenged and the nursery manager is the unreasonable one? 🤔

Schleep · 13/11/2024 11:38

I run a nursery school.
Parents not paying on time is a HUGE issue - and there's always excuses and its not uncommon for it to end up with invoices just being unpaid indefinitely. This then results in cash flow issues putting staff wages at risk and is just a huge burden all round. Contrary to popular belief, nurseries are not making money hand over fist.

To have payment issues right from the start is a massive red flag.

Hoppinggreen · 13/11/2024 11:45

Singlemommy2024 · 12/11/2024 23:27

Child is 3 going on 4 and they’re not even teaching phonics and writing skills. No feedback on daily activities to promote development and nothing in the plan to prepare them for school. I don’t think that’s too unreasonable to ask, do you?

Generally that happens at school rather than Nursery

SatinHeart · 13/11/2024 11:46

Sounds not unlike the private nursery we used. Fairly standard policies imo.

Payment due 1 month in advance on the 1st of the month, even if your child's first day is later that month.

Changing sessions after signing the contract was subject to a 6 week notice period AND subject to availability so you'd only be able to switch from mornings to afternoons if they had a space within ratios.

For ours it was in the T&Cs that if you made negative comments about the nursery on any public forum your child's place would be withdrawn.

meganna · 13/11/2024 11:50

Every nursery or childcare related thing I've ever had to pay for has always required payments in advance. So I pay on the 1st of the month for the full month. If I book holiday club I pay in advance. Afterschool club in advance...it's totally normal!

It is highly unusual to pay childcare in arrears, and I'm quite surprised that's been your experience as this thread demonstrates that practically everyone else pays in advance!

I understand that universal credit pays in arrears for childcare as they pay out once you have submitted a receipt showing your payment, but that doesn't mean you get to pay the nursery in arrears too. They are a private business and can set their own rules. if you can't afford the upfront payment you can apply for a loan or grant to cover it initially.

Chan9eusername · 13/11/2024 11:53

There is zero point doing loads of phonics before school tbh. My eldest had and could read quite fluently - the approach (in state schools at least) is often now to progress the whole class through the same level books aligned to the phonics taught in class, he was given the same beginner books as everyone else. A handful of children who were truly struggling were kept on easier books longer but the expectation was that 90% of the class would basically stay on pretty much the same couple of book bands for reception & year one.

IVFmumoftwo · 13/11/2024 11:56

Schleep · 13/11/2024 11:38

I run a nursery school.
Parents not paying on time is a HUGE issue - and there's always excuses and its not uncommon for it to end up with invoices just being unpaid indefinitely. This then results in cash flow issues putting staff wages at risk and is just a huge burden all round. Contrary to popular belief, nurseries are not making money hand over fist.

To have payment issues right from the start is a massive red flag.

How long before you issue a "pay or your child loses their place" type of notice?

Katiesaidthat · 13/11/2024 12:13

weaselpatrol · 13/11/2024 07:51

I was thinking the same with the overuse of comprehend/comprehension “ I comprehended the contract” 😹

This made me think her language 1 wasn´t English. In Spanish "comprender" simply means "understand", it isn´t a posh word. But I may be totally wrong, though.
OP my daughter´s nursery, which she attended for 3 years, was paid upfront, so are any clubs, extracurriculars etc. My daughter could recognise her name when she was three. Started phonics at 5 years old in pre-school and has started reading now she is 6. There is no rush, let her play and socialise and develop fine motor skills, that is the base for everything else.

TerroristToddler · 13/11/2024 12:17

It's standard (at least where I am) to pay for childcare bills for the month upfront - not after the childcare has been provided. Between my DCs we've used 5 settings for nursery/preschool and a couple of providers to wraparound and this has been the case for each and every provider.
I expect I too would be chased for payment if my DC was attending and I hadn't paid anything except a deposit!

ThatRareUmberJoker · 13/11/2024 12:28

Paganpentacle · 13/11/2024 11:23

Please. What a load of parp.
I've always worked full time.
Didn't stop me reading with my kids and teaching them.
Its parenting. You make time.

She's paying for a service she expects them to provide what they said they will give to her child. For whatever reason she may not have the time to teach him she has said she is also studying she does a course in the afternoon. She's a single parent and probably struggles to find the time. I don't think it's helpful to shame a single mother who is trying her best.

Trobealone · 13/11/2024 14:33

@CountryGirlInTheCity

From teaching in a nursery 20 years ago, there was a sound of the week, number of the week.
It certainly wasn’t the whole focus - but we did do fun activities around a letter/letter formation where we focussed on pencil grip.
The children enjoyed it and were engaged - there certainly wasn’t a feeling from them that ‘this is wrong’ - and it felt like purposeful learning.
We also had children starting to recognise words, and having early reading books.
Also with the resources that were out : I’d say there was more ‘teaching’ about to play doctors in the home corner, or how to cut with scissors. I had an amazing nursery class one year, and many of them were reading. There wasn’t a sudden cry if ‘they’ve missed phase 1” - they went on to be an amazing class through the school.
Over the years this has dwindled - and more recently in nurseries I see far less planning, or purposeful play - I see far more transporting around the classroom, lost and broken resources, behaviour issues.
So since we’ve moved away from less structure, are we seeing a massive improvement in reception cohorts?
I don’t think we are.
One if my children has a speech delay. However he can learn sounds easily. He can now read, and because he can read - his speech vastly improved and he can understand from seeing speech written down.
My other child was reading when she was three, and is excelling in English now at secondary school. She was learning sounds when she was about 1 and a half. And loved them. There isn’t some ‘huge gap’ that’s been missed by not repeating phase 1 phonics over and over again.
And I’ve never seen a reception class that hasn’t done an informal phonics assessment at the start of the year.

Trobealone · 13/11/2024 14:40

@CountryGirlInTheCity

I was listening to ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’. Scout’s experience of her first day of school.
She already knows how to read, and is punished by the teacher because she hasn’t learnt this by the ‘latest method’ - so the teacher will have to undo all the harm that’s been caused…

pollymere · 13/11/2024 17:46

I'm not a fan of Montessori for various reasons. I'd be seeking a nursery attached to a school that uses a different pedagogy personally.

Treesandsheepeverywhere · 13/11/2024 18:02

Sounds like you both started on the wrong foot.
You haven't answered if you left the review on a public forum, which has been asked repeatedly (sorry if I missed it).

That would be like leaving a bad online review for your starter, before you've received the main. Dicey!

You can't be surprised she's not too pleased with you.
Sounds like she's chopping and changing in the hope you leave the nursery.

Not great as you've lost the previous place, so either make good with her and hope she's kind enough to 'change the policy' to fit you in or find a new nursery.

Appreciate you're in a tough spot, but leaving a review whilst your child is still there wasn't the best move.

Kneebonefuture · 13/11/2024 18:13

I've never known a nursery that didn't want the fees upfront. So you were lucky there. They should have provided info regarding the cost, but you also should have found out the costs before agreeing to 3 full days. Having read all your replies you do seem very argumentative and I'm not sure why you are posting when you seem very certain you aren't in the wrong.

angela1952 · 13/11/2024 18:57

Very few nurseries would be able to switch your child's hours around because you need "flexibility with your commitments". They typically only accept a child when they know that they have the free hours that the parents need, and can't chop and change a child's hours as you appear to require. The only way you would get this would be if you paid for a full-time place and then just used the hours that you actually needed, which is what my DD did as she often did not know from one week to the next what hours she would need.
Many nurseries won't be flexible if you are only taking up the funded hours or just a few hours over, it's obviously simpler for them if they have more full-time children so they don't have to mess about filling in the empty hours for which they have staff.
As regards payment, it would be normal to pay for a full month in advance before the child starts nursery, there are plenty of people out there to take the places who are happy to do exactly this. I can see that you might be irritated to have to pay it at short notice, but the first payment obviously has to be paid before your child starts there so unless you arrange everything well in advance you will have to pay at short notice. If you can't meet the payments regularly for whatever reason they will simply take the place away.
And the "phonics and writing skills" business is just ridiculous before they start school at 5 or 7, particularly as this is a Montessori nursery.

laraitopbanana · 13/11/2024 19:10

Singlemommy2024 · 12/11/2024 23:15

I didn’t know the fee because the manager was unable to provide a clear fee structure for term time only students, only year round.

Also the fees I initially agreed to were affordable because I was sold that DC would be able to attend half days whether it be morning or afternoon. I only fell into issues when my commitments changed and needed afternoon sessions only to find out she’d changed the policy without communicating it.

Hi op,

It is quite unprofessional of the manager to just tell you that she can’t tell you yet but give you the hourly rate.

the final rate includes loads of stuff which without nurseries can’t continue to open so she perfectly knew that the 15h were not going to cover everything. She defo downplayed it. But then again, it is for you to check that you can pay before agreeing. And if you can’t, you do have in your contract written down what is the period cool off.

Next time, so not let yourself being sweep by “you have to act fast to secure the spot”, it is an old sales technique really.

Good luck 🌺

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