I didn’t leave the left. The left, left me.

[GenerativeAIBot]

Stop me if you have already heard this the last few days, I am trying to make sense of how I feel about Trump and other right leaning wins:

“Woke” issues being pushed to where they have been, has empowered the right by giving them something real and legitimate to campaign against. Something more than their usual transparently false bogeymen.

In general, Authoritarianism, compelled speech, no debate. Specifically men in women’s sports, in women’s changing rooms, unfettered immigration, being asked to ignore the evidence in front of our eyes.

This is happening across the world, Italy, France, Germany, USA, UK.

I remain entirely committed to progressive taxation, a social safety net, collective bargaining, workers rights, public schooling and health services as well as the rights of everyone to live contented, unmolested lives.

I reject identity politics in their entirety. For example, I consider terms like “Woman of colour” to be the epitome of divisive, racist, sexist thought patterns that seeks to infantilise people and move their locus of control from internal to external. Disempowering people and making them victims.

I didn’t leave the left. The left left me.

Reasonable?

You’re talking about nuance and then go on to imply that trans rights don’t clash with women’s rights and don’t affect women just because your best mate is trans.
That’s your personal experience, other people might have a different one.

@GenerativeAIBot you had to go at my writing because it wasn't in paragraphs and it had typos
I hate predictive texts, but nevertheless, people are understanding what i'm putting so I am telling you, I believe you were in bad faith and these are the reasons why.
The left throughout the decades. Theyve always been about social justice because they have stood, unite it with workers and other causes that were needed in the day.
Sure, attitudes actually change and society change, and maybe they have got bit more liberal, but that's what society does. Also, the left is a broad church. You have authoritarian left.You have liberal left to say you have left.The left means that you didn't really have an ideology that fitted with that.
You also basically try to make a slur at me. That I was all about illegal immigration, and that is such a reform talking point. When i simply stated to go off the left because of immigration is wrong as its not them that are causing people to be poor its lack of infrastructure done by the last 14 years of tories etc somwthing you wont acknowledge.
So sorry if I think that you are debating in bad faith as for me the reasons you put why you have left tye left are simply rubbish

@Tandora
I do not think think that gender and sexual violence is a function of biology, I think it is a function of power and patriarchy.

But the power and patriarchy are a function of biology.

Besides which, some violence is directly a function of biology, hence why testosterone-fuelled men get into punch-ups.

Including trans in that space makes it unisex.

Sex being the word here that you don’t seem to understand.

Women are fearful of men (some, some) due to statistics.

Why don’t you ask men to be more accepting of having those men who feel about themselves differently (trans women) in their spaces? Why are you infringing on women? They aren’t non-trans women btw, they are just women.

Exactly this poster is so fuelled by hate if trans people and immigrants it seems to then vote for someone that hasn't got her interests at heart

What makes a female space that includes males less safe for females - is the males.

Males are the ones who do all the sexual attacks and the raping. This is not fear and prejudice, this is fact. It's the penis that does the raping.

Identifying as a female does not reduce those odds (some people even say it makes it go up). It definitely does not make it go down.

Therefore - your preferred option, increase the danger to females of all ages. And you do this because of a male's feelings

You are putting the feelings of males above the safety of females. You think makes are more important than females.

You reject a third space where trans identified people could use - because that does not validate male feelings. This is the authoritarian compelled speech and behaviour again.

Would you be ok in that cell from earlier?

If you say no it's fear and prejudice so is it a yes?

I suggest one potential way to resolve this in the short term might be two types of women's facilities - one for (non trans) women who do not want to share the space with trans women

Let's do it, women end up with single sex spaces in that scenario, no need for short term only

How on earth is trans a fundamental issue? Making sure pensioners don't freeze to death, ending the need for food banks, healthcare, protecting the environment - all fundamental issues. Trans, not so much!

@EuclidianGeometryFan , it is clear that @Tandora thinks the differences between literal sex is entirely cultural (power, patriarchy). I think this points to a very different wolrld view to the ones the rest of us seem to see here

I think it is worth uncovering because it could be the fundamental issue in this discussion

I know for a fact that male and female is different. there are significant physical differences and hormonal differences. as you point out, males fight a lot more ad take more risky decisions etc

if @Tandora thinks this is entirely cultural, they clearly didn't do biology and have got their "facts" from somewhere else

Your definition is Newspeak that makes it impossible to create a woman only space because "woman" means men. It is pure sophistry, amounts to the exact same thing as not wanting to allow female only spaces in addition to unisex ones, and you are not too stupid to understand this.

So this is not an answer to the question. It is in fact an incredibly dishonest and, to me, disturbing response in which you say that you not only want to outlaw female only spaces, you want to make it impossible to articulate what a female only space is so nobody can define and therefore create one. It's Nineteen Eighty Four. And you have the absolute gall to lecture about fascism.

Your justification, buried in there, is that you don't feel threatened by male bodies in a female space. That's fine, but many women do, often for extremely good reason (as an aside, how do you actually dare suggest that traumatised women are merely prejudiced? Seriously, how dare you?). The fact that you do not feel this way does not allow you to dictate that no other woman (if you are a woman, and even if you're not) can feel this way. And you have the gall to lecture about accepting subjectivity.

This is why the left is losing. It's become Nineteen Eighty Four and like you are doing here, reliant on trying to make it impossible to articulate the problem or any alternative. Since you are O'Brien, insisting that we deny what we see and hear with our own eyes and ears, and engaging Newspeak and thoughtcrime to coerce speech and belief in what you want, I have to conclude then that you have the same reason as him: the object of power is power. Because men want it, and women don't matter. The object of power is power.

Including trans in that space makes it unisex.

So you insist. That's fine, you can call the women's space , inclusive of trans women, "unisex" if it makes you feel better. You can call it "the space for the infidels! The TRAs! The massive twat bags!" whatever label you care to use.

As long as we are all clear there is one for (non trans) women only, one for women and trans women, and one for men, we can all be happy.

"trans" is a fundamental issue because it affects 51% of the population directly, endangering them, reducing participation in sports and invalidating the identity of half the population of the world.

Also- we can be angry about more than one thing.

The confused and easily riled types are the easiest to get on board by the rabid right wing.

sorry have to go pick up my kid from school

How can you say that women’s fear is rooted in fear and prejudice when confronted with facts and statistics that show unequivocally that women are multiple times more likely to be attacked in mixed sex spaces.

Why are you ignoring facts in favour of theory?

Seems like it

No.

Female space for females. (no males)

Male space for males (Females welcome, they never rape anyone)

Unisex for everyone

because @Tandora thinks their theory is in fact, fact. They have been taught that somewhere, I'd love to know where, and now genuinely believe it is fact

my definition of "woman" (which is a word/ label) includes trans women

My definition of cats includes dogs.

My definition of birds includes Jilly Cooper novels.

My definition of lumberjacks includes televisions.

My definition of rain includes Mosaic Theology.

Words actually have meanings. That's the point of them.

Just to play devils advocate here, how would you police a genuine women only space?

For example, Ilona Maher has been on the receiving end of abhorrent abuse over her appearance and is on record talking about how she's been brought to tears by people claiming she's really a man. How would you ensure she wasn't challenged when entering a women's only space?

@Tandora
I cannot fathom how you can't see the connection between biology and patriarchy.

There was a time in the early eighties when academics gave up the fight for women's rights, the fight against patriarchy and oppression. Maybe they thought it was hopeless. Having gone through the seventies and got so far, the movement had stalled. Some said the fight was won.

Some academics cottoned on to a brilliant new idea - instead of fighting patriarchy directly, they would do an end-run around it and fight the concept of biological sex. As if demolishing sex would make the patriarchy fall.
And a new idea had to be worth several books and papers, even a whole new specialism, a new career.

It was, and still is, an idea built on sand.
It is not possible to ignore or demolish biological sex in favour of 'gender'.
And even if you could, it would sneak back in by the back door, and patriarchy would continue.
Patriarchy is based on sex, not gender.

Who made you king of the world? As long as you get your space , why do you get to define mine?

Tbh, I hear many more right wingers going on about culture war issues and declaring that’s what the left cares about than any progressives talking about it. Trump kept on about Harris and transgender even though she actually barely mentioned it. Seems to work.

So it seems. @Tandora deals in Gove-ian post-fact speak.

Also emotions and empathy. Which are prioritised way higher than facts or reality or notions of fairness. Unless we’re talking about empathising with vulnerable women or their emotions or being fair to them. In which case @Tandora couldn’t give a shit.

You don't get it. It's YOU who is trying to make decisions for 51% of the planet.

if YOU want to go into a unisex changing room - PLEASE DO

but YOU don't get to invite MALES into FEMALE spaces (changing rooms, sports teams, jobs, identities)