I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

Hi OP , it sounds like you are crossing boundaries here, and as the MIL of the mother, this not going to go well for you. you need to let go of control here and you also need to humble yourself and apologise.

it was not your call to make that it was “fine” for your DGC to miss his lunch (that was disrespectful); and you should not have taken the baby downstairs in the middle of the night.

Im personally much more aligned with your style of parenting, but everyone is different and you have to remember that your DIL is still very much finding her feet as a 1st time mum to a very young child. Instead of feeling supported, she is feeling criticised , judged and undermined by you.

She shouldn’t have “lectured” you / spoken to you like a child, and I can understand that will have been difficult for you to take, but also you haven’t shared many details of what she actually said , so it’s hard to judge how unreasonable she was being there .

what do you mean by asking if you “can just be yourself sometimes” around your grandson? If I’m being blunt, this sounds a little emotionally manipulative. Be yourself how? How is she preventing you from being yourself other than asking you to respect/ follow the routines she has for her baby - like mealtimes and bedtime sleeping arrangements? These are perfectly reasonable boundaries for her to have and do not prevent you from being yourself around your grandchild.

Ultimately You hold no cards here, so your best course of action if you want to maximise access to your grandson is to sincerely apologise, and work out how you be a supportive presence for your DIL moving forward .

Why have you brought up your parenting style not only on this thread but to your dil? That implies you find your way to be the correct way (your parenting style to me sounds awful btw but everyone is different right?)

having said that I can’t really see what you did wrong? That would be a non issue in my house, I would have got my back up of you had said to me your parenting style is different to mine, can I have them on my own.

it sounds like your judgemental and dil is uptight.

when you apologise again leave out your views on parenting and just apologise.

Her house, her rules, her child. The rules also extends to outside the house.

It seems like you've overstepped the boundaries ( probably many times and not just about being late from lunch or co-sleeping) you've just been oblivious.

I'd apologise and let it cool for a bit. Stop using the ' but I raised 4 kids' excuse or 'we didnit differently in those days'. That's a load of bull. You've had your turn. It's her turn now. If you want to continue raising kids, I suggest you give birth to your own. If your supply has dried up, then tough.

If you're not careful, you won't see these kids again except on special dates/ anniversary/birthdays only.

I think you're still not instilling confidence that you respect, and will follow, your DS and DiL's rules. If you say "your house your rules" that suggests you will do what you want outside their house. Then you said you would like some time with the children on your own! Also, why is your DiL the focus of your criticism and not your son - you admit he wasn't happy when he came downstairs?

Reading all the posts you say ‘your house your rules’ but you don’t actually abide by that. Why don’t you just enjoy the kids and seeing your son with his family? Forget the need to correct what they’re doing or compare it with what you did. It’s not a competition and your mindset will only bring about a bad ending. I would apologise and then make an effort to genuinely follow their lead & not be overly involved. Don’t point out what you did vs what they’re doing etc. your son will know you’re not keen on his wife if you’re not very very careful.

In 'middle class' places, breastfeeding seems to be the norm until well after 6 months or more. 17% seems desperately low.

Thanks so much. Wise words. I'm over emotional so cried but this is where I'm at

My kids thrived on routine but even I wouldn’t be angry about you helping your grandchild to warm up and ‘not doing it their way’, but then we did co sleep.

Not sure what else you could do.
Maybe say next time if your gs wakes up you’ll knocked on their bedroom door so they can take care of him their way.

That said when my mum looked after ours she did her own thing, routine out of the window and lemonade 😳 on the table. All three just slipped back into normal routine when we returned. No harm done. Doesn’t sound like dis and sil are as accommodating so I’d conform.

What you're doing is making a rod for their back. When you're not there, who's going to co sleep with the baby? When you're back late, they're probably out of their minds and DIL is probably going livid. Respect their decisions.

Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different

You can be different, but you can't do things differently to how the parents have asked.

It must be really disappointing not to be able to grandparent how you might have envisaged, because they are doing things differently from how you did. It probably does feel rigid compared to your style - but neither is right or wrong.

You're asking them to put your need to be "fun different grandma" ahead of their own household's needs and routines, when you live 200 miles away, don't visit that often and are not involved in day to day care. That's not fair and not reasonable.

It comes across that you don't approve of your DIL's parenting style and I'd wager she has picked up on that, as well as the subtle attempts to undermine how she wants to parent. Honestly, stop doing that. Respect their wishes while they're managing two little ones. There will be more freedom when your grandchildren are older and don't need to be in such set routines, and you will be freer to develop your own relationship with them. Suck it up while they're small and bide your time. You don't have to agree with all their rules, we are all free to have different opinions on parenting, but it's madness to ruin your relationship with your grandchildren because you can't rein your need to be "different grandma" in.

Good grief. Virtually every grandparent in existence finds their child parents on a different way than they did. And as in pretty much everything to do with parenting adults, most of us keep our mouths shut. But you can't police or thoughts. And the DIL in the OP will almost certainly have her own thoughts about how her children parent (though I predict that she might not keep her mouth shut, given how entrenched she is).

OP made an error of judgement. But it's not remotely deserving of being cut off from her grandchild. That's absolutely ridiculous.

I adored my MIL, but even she would occasionally frustrate me by doing something that threw routines out. I only chastised her once, and I regret it to this day. It wasn't remotely the end of the world (it was an over feeding thing) and I was too sharp with her.

But jeeze, this DIL is at a whole different level.

I'm not lucky enough to be a granny yet but most of my friends are. I hear stories like this over again from them. The root is nearly always that the granny disagrees with modern parenting and accidentally on purpose undermines the parents. I can remember my parents/ILS doing similar to me. It never ends well.

You were caught out OP. You knew what the parents would have wanted you to do but did things your way instead.

You might be right and what you did was the best way to proceed but that's irrelevant. You bought your kids up your way and now they are bringing their kids up their way. Your opinions and preferences are unimportant. Unless their way is actually abusive or dangerous you should respect it.

IDK how you come back from this. They probably won't trust you to do things the way they prefer in the future and why would they expose their kids to something they think is wrong?

I absolutely loved breastfeeding. I probably wouldn't have been able to persist if I hadn't. I had three c/sections too.

I was also (very briefly!) that know-it-all new parent. My mum who'd had 4 children with my dad was giving me advice, and I totally dismissed it. It was years ago, what did she know?!

Well quite a fucking lot actually, when I rang her in tears not long after getting home from hospital, asking, "what do I do with this baby?"!!!

Bringing up kids in the 80s and 90s is way different to bringing them up today. I have (just) adult kids and my DB/SIL's kids are much younger. They do bring them up quite differently - but that is their choice and nothing to do with me and absolutely no issue for me. So when I am at their house, I always ask them what is to be done and never assume that I know. I'm middle aged and have brought my kids up.

It sounds like there has been a major clash here - your DIL has rigid methods and you think you know it all about parenting.

Even so, accepting that it might be six of one and half a dozen of the other, arguing with a pissed off stressed out parent who has a toddler and a baby is not a great plan.

Of course it's easier with your daughter. She'll be more inclined to parent in the way you parented her.

I do think that you should have bitten your tongue when DIL told you off. She wants her 3yo parented a certain way - let her do it. If you are to help, make sure the help is in line with what she does.

It doesn't sound at all awful to me. Pretty similar to my own.

Absolutely.
Im wondering if this level of control will make her overly anxious
Also concerned at what point does the control stop….At what age……?

@TiredRetired I'm ashamed to say I was sharp with my lovely MIL occasionally and I know I upset her.

I still have regrets, and after her son and I got divorced, and time passed, I realised how wrong I had been.

Silly pride, the ''needing to be right''- I can't right the wrongs, but did write her and FIL a letter to apologise years later- and bless them, they were so kind, and appreciated it.

I bitterly regret not letting them see their grandson on Christmas Day {because I wanted to see my parents and family}

I was young - no excuse, I know- But I truly began to see things more clearly once time had passed.

It's a difficult relationship, MIL/DIL chances are, their relationship may founder- many marriages sadly do.

DS kept in touch with his grandparents til they died, and I cried when they did die. They were good people.

Please take the posts here with a pinch of salt! You're clearly very upset over this and I don't think this was the best place to come!

Take a step back and play the game by their rules. I don't think you have any choice.

You sound really disingenuous and your criticism of your DIL is not so thinly veiled.

Remember your son also seems to be singing from the same sheet as your DIL but your focus is on her which is telling.

I think you've ruined it for yourself and don't really have anyone else to blame.

You don't like the way you were told off? Perhaps you should have thought about that before completely overstepping, they're not your children, you don't get a say op and since they don't rely on you for childcare you don't have much to hold over them.

Just because OP raised 4 children doesn't mean she's experienced or raised them right.

Times have changed and parenting styles have moved on. In the olden days belts were used and children were seen and not heard. But those days have long gone now and many children were raised like that. But that doesn't mean the parenting style was right. The parents of yesteryear will say they had lots of experience raising 6 kids.

Your DIL is unreasonable and a bit of a twat.

Yes, parents decide how to raise their kids, but other adults who care for them should be allowed to use their best judgement in the situation wen it's a bit out of the ordinary.

It doesn't matter how routine driven your kids are, if a little one is very cold it's reasonable to get them warmed up before putting them back to bed. Especially since there is no blanket. That's a totally normal response.

And what does she think is going to happen due to this slight change in routine? Almost certainly nothing. No on can maintain a perfectly fixed routine, things come up, and especially little ones grow and change and do things that are unexpected.

And when a parent has a good track record of successfully taking care of kids that does actually count for something.

Whether a caregiver prefers routine or a relaxed approach, good caregiving has to be responsive to the situation and need of the child in the moment. A mother who would put a very cold child back in a bed rather than step outside a routine is the one with the problem. I'd have a really hard time being silent to my child about that, not because I like to butt in, because I don't and I think many different parenting styles work well - but because I think it's getting towards dangerous rigidity.

I've explained elsewhere. Son, rightly, took the kids into the playroom whilst this took off. He quietly sided with her which is as it should be. I'm not as close to him as I should be. He works long hours and they seem to have a good marriage.
I was a breastfeeding counsellor for 17 years. I did offer help but didn't step in specifically until asked when she was having real trouble with eldest.
I think this situation can be resolved in that we are both reasonable people and I think she knows the boys and I have a good relationship. However, I don't think it will ever be the same after this. I
I think next time I visit I'll stay in a hotel

On MN men are never allowed to side with their mothers over their wives

Many people still use similar parenting styles to OP
Just because parenting styles have moved on just means they are different not that they are necessarily better.

It also doesn't mean she hasn't! It bugs the shit out of me now that I am properly old and my experiences and views are dismissed as irrelevant as a result!! The days of using belts and children seen and not heard are long gone - that was my generation, and we didn't perpetuate it!