I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

They sound extremely rigid, but you do also sound somewhat over involved and possibly a bit critical.

You shouldn't have taken your grandchild downstairs. You should have taken him back to his own room and if necessary asked his parents to handle it.

They had said no co-sleeping but you were co-sleeping with him! On the couch rather than in a bed, but still going against their wishes, and it could be quite dangerous if he got wedged between you and the back of it, or fell off.

Also, your grandchild has now learned that getting up in the middle of the night will get him taken downstairs for cuddles with you. Surely you can see the problems that could cause and why his parents might be annoyed.

You may have meant well, but you overstepped big time and you also argued with them over it. I think you have some apologising to do, and you need to step back with your advice and implied criticism.

You probably aren't permanently banned - clearly tempera are running high. They will calm down.

I think the parents are being extreme - as are the posters who say they would be 'livid" if you took the child downstairs - if they feel like this about minor household events, how the hell do they feel about things like racism and genocide? Making an arguable mistake about a child's sleep patterns is NOT worthy of being "livid" about.

That said, your disapproval of the mom's parenting drips from your post - I would try to let this go, if I were you. If the kids are safe and happy, let her get on with it, just be loving and supportive, try to abandon any strong feelings about it. Because she doesn't need to love breast feeding (for example). Even if she had formula fed from day one to avoid getting saggy tits (i breast fed for years by the way - loved it), as long as her kids are safe, happy and loved then all is well.

I’d be more like your style of parenting but my DD is quite rigid so I suspect she will be more like your DIL in the future so I’m not judging one way or another but I think you just have to suck it up. Many babies have been reared many different ways and it is about what word best for the parents/family.

Let the dust settle and speak to your DIL. Apologise if she feels you’ve overstepped her boundaries not because your way of parenting is worse than hers but because she is still learning and probably doing her best and she is feeling undermined by you I suspect.

your disapproval of the mom's parenting drips from your post

Agree with this tbh

Having 4 children doesn’t mean you know everything about parenting, and in particular, you don’t know what works best for this child. Some kids are much more thrown out by changes to sleep or routine than others.

I parented much more like you, OP, but if you know they want him to sleep in his own bed then back to his own bed he goes. I don't really understand why his hands being cold made a difference - they kick their covers off or get out, so they're cold, so you give them a cuddle and tuck them back in again.

Whatever else you do, don’t mess with a child’s night time sleep routine when it’s not your child. Parenting young children = years of functioning with sleep deprivation. You took the child downstairs at midnight - in their house - to snuggle on the sofa! Your DIL might be very regimented in her approach but I can’t see any parents being thrilled that you didn’t put the child back to bed with an extra cover.

While she does sound over the top your only solution is to let her calm down apologize and never do things your way again. Nothing you did would bother me but she's clearly intent on her way or no way. It's up to you to decide if seeing your grandchildren is less important then deviating from her rules.

A loving grandma is a loving grandma, you were just trying to warm him up and allow your child the gift of sleep, dont forget you were also half asleep. When there is anxiety in a parent they are often rigid about rules. Grand parents can usually soften that but it seems you are misunderstood. You've apologised, can't do any more. Evolutionally we are designed to be fluid and adaptable, you were and your DIL wasn't. Least said soonest mended, just keep an encouraging demeanor and don't step in to the breach next time. Then maybe they'll appreciate your genuine effort to help. None so blind as those who will not see. I've experienced a bit of this with a couple of mine, I also have four. My view is everyone needs rest, especially parents who need to work. It doesnt matter who does the hard yards but who works the next day should be sleeping. But it's them that need to recognise that not you. Don't beat yourself up, you tried to help and that should've been appreciated. Just maintain your dignity, your grandchildren will learn a great deal from your quiet caring logic as they grow. The unconditional love you express will do them good.

Not really the point. Things move on and they have a different way of raising their children. My children do things differently to me. They stick to strict bed and meal times, black out curtains etc. I was more laid back. However I respect their choices and would certainly never interfere or criticise.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/nov/09/the-families-torn-apart-when-adult-children-decide-to-go-no-contact

I posted this to another thread but relevant here too. Such an insightful read.

I don't think the way you parented your children is relevant at all. This is how your grandchildren are being raised, and as their parents, they get to decide that. The whole "I'll follow the rules in your house" thing doesn't instil confidence that you will respect their parenting choices when looking after the GC independently or at your home.

Could you apologise and ask what they would have liked you to have done (not argumentatively) so that you can learn how they are choosing to parent and emulate that?

You sound like you respect their rules but definitely don't agree with it. And I'm sure it shows. I really don't understand why the older generation takes it so personally when their children want to do things differently when it comes to raising kids. Don't have to agree or disagree, just accept it.

It doesn't really matter her stance or yours on any particular parenting issues, her children, her rules. Don't over step if you want to be involved in their lives.

I bring my children up closer to how you raised yours. Very child centric, I'm the kids main comfort. Middle child doesn't want his room, so I have a cot in my room for him as well as the youngest. Never thought I'd be the type for a family room with kids in and put of my bed throughout the night, but here we are! But you need to leave your judgement well away from her, and do as she says. It seems your son is also on board. Anything other than towing the line will damage your relationship with the GCs and your DS.

We live quite a long way away so I don't help with childcare apart from babysitting when I visit. She doesn't work although plans to go back next summer.

I do video calls with eldest grandson every week, daft stuff like walking down our lane in the dark listening for owls. I'm thinking this will be my best way of keeping in touch until perhaps things calm down.

Where did the OP say she was "sleeping" again??

OP, the Internet opinion doesn't really matter except to make you feel better. You know it doesn't matter whether you were unreasonable or not as you are asking us to provide value judgement when the one that really matters is your DIL's and son. They are the parents and have their own way of doing things and you breached that. No amount of strangers agreeing with you will fix that and I'm sure you'd rather be in your DIL's and son's good graces than mumnetters. I suggest sending flowers and apologising and telling her you want to support and will do anything to be a help rather than be a hindrance. I understand you meant well but I also know that it can feel overwhelming to feel overridden when it comes to your own children and so your DIL may feel that. Don't invalidate her feelings (I'm sure you won't) just because a bunch of strangers would do differently. They didn't marry your son and aren't the parents of your grandchildren, and it's DIL and your son you want to maintain a good relationship with. Forget the rest of us!

I would keep well away, she'll be back when she wants something. I certainly wouldn't be lectured like that.
She sounds as though her opinion is all that matters, the father just obeys her.

I'm worried she might feel like that and it's not my intention. Yes, I did feel aggrieved but after a walk round the garden I apologised to her but also asked if I could sometimes just be myself with the kids. I don't see them that often as we live 200 miles away

Nobody knows "everything about parenting" but having raised 4 children is a lot of experience to diss!

Or her husband stands up for her because he agrees. Rare on MN but it does happen!

I did explain that and he really was cold. His arms, not just his hands and feet.

Her response was "so now my rooms are too cold are they?

Although you don't overtly criticize your DIL in your post OP, it's absolutely dripping with subtle criticism. I wonder if the same thing is happening in your conversations and interactions? That certainly came across in what you said during the argument. The reaction you got also suggests this is something that's been building for a while, not just a reaction to this single event.

And why are you exclusively talking about your DIL, not your DS?

Although their parenting style is very different to yours was (30-40 years ago) I suspect you knew the cuddling on the sofa downstairs wouldn't fit with their style. So you shouldn't have done it.

As others have said, your DIL and DS may have very good reasons for their 'rigid' style. Maybe it's the the only way they can keep to a routine and ensure everyone in the family gets enough rest? But the 'why' they parent the way they do isn't the issue. It's their choice and you always need to respect it, even if you disagree with it.

She's at the end of her tether trying to get you to respect and abide by the way she is raising her child. If this was written from the DIL perspective, the responses would all be supportive of her because parents' wishes trump grandparents opinions, and even from your point of view it doesn't sound like you do actually respect and honour her way of doing things.

I'll whisper for your tender ears, some of us had the audacity to enjoy feeding our children, we weren't all martys! Love the 17%, terribly precise so probably nonsense!