I think I've just been banned from seeing my grandchildren!

[TiredRetired]

My parenting was different from the way my DIL is bringing up my two grandsons but that is not usually a problem. They are happy little boys.
Background; I had my 4 kids in the 1980s/1990s. I read the Continuum Concept and never looked back. We co-slept. Breastfed until natural weaning. Home educated second youngest until ready for school.
DIL was given lots of help by me to b'feed ( asked for) which she does diligently but not sure she really enjoys it. She sticks rigidly to meal & nap times which we have to come home for. I have always stuck up for her when other family members have rolled their eyes at this because they seem happy in the routine. I will occasionally get a lecture - for instance I once kept eldest out past meal time because we had stopped at a cafe. I texted not to worry about lunch but was told in no uncertain terms to come back immediately
I visited a few days ago in their new house they've just moved to. I was sleeping in the dormer bedroom opposite my 3 yr old grandson. He arrived in my room about midnight having undone his sleeping bag, climbed out of his cot and come through. It was cold in the rooms (corners often are) and his hands and feet were like ice. I know they don't like co-sleeping so I grabbed the duvet and took him downstairs to snuggle on the couch and warm him up. Just did not occur to me to put him back in his cot like that.
To cut a long story my son came through and said, I'll take him Mum. Suspected I'd done the wrong thing as he was quite short with me.
Got a lecture in the morning from DIL as though I was a small child myself and I'm afraid it went badly. After listening a bit I said "of course I'll do what you want in your house but my parenting was different to yours so it can be a bit difficult for me to know what to do here. I'm not 12 yrs old and I've brought up 4 kids. Can I not be the Grandma that's a bit different because after all, you're the biggest influence on them ( that's a precis of my side of it)
She was really angry and said she can't see how I can continue to visit and she doesn't know what else she has to do...
You get the picture?
I am heartbroken. Don't know at the moment now to fix this. I apologised and said of course in your house, your rules but there's something broken now

Actually, having had more children than most people, I've had a huge diversity of experience through the younger ones most wouldn't have got to. That does actually make me a wealth of information and experience I think is worthwhile, but only if relevant and wanted. Of course that experience isn't relevant for every child or family. But it is worth a lot. At the same time, other people have experience in areas that I haven't experienced myself, also value to those who come behind. (Speaking more generically than just parenting here).

Age offers the benefit of having had the opportunity to have more experience but I don't think it's an automatic reason to give someone respect. If my actions don't deserve respect, I shouldn't get it.

I haven't found myself getting less respect in general due to having more turns around the sun, but maybe I haven't yet got to that age or it's because I apparently look younger?

I don't think they are forced to do anything. I certainly never did.

I think it's probably more likely due to you being reasonable and respectful, you are able to understand that unless asked then being generally supportive is good for your relationships than handing out unsolicited advice.

You also come across as genuine and probably don't use your experience in a way to undermine and be critical, which is really what ops DIL could do with whilst she's navigating the first year with two children, she needs kindness.

Allow me to refresh your memory.

Times have changed and parenting styles have moved on. In the olden days belts were used and children were seen and not heard. But those days have long gone now and many children were raised like that. But that doesn't mean the parenting style was right. The parents of yesteryear will say they had lots of experience raising 6 kids

That is an outrageous, sweeping generalisation to make. "The parents of yesteryear will say they had lots of experience raising 6 kids". You didn't say "some parents...". So yeah it's a shockingly judgemental thing to say and a terrible accusation of violence against children to make against some people on this thread.

You sound like a lovely, caring person. To give all that time in your life to supporting breastfeeding mothers is truly admirable. There was the free ready-made formula when I had my first in 1997. Mums used to smuggle supplies out home!

I wasn't ever particularly maternal and only became desperate to have a baby when it appeared the fates were against me. In my case, it was a couple of midwives who helped me enormously and the fact that I got kept in hospital for a week post-birth that got my feeding established. I would have been so grateful for someone like you, and I imagine very many mothers were.

I agree too that women should be each other's advocates and supporters. Maybe your DIL feels a little intimidated at your depth of expertise and that she may not measure up? Either way she isn't receptive to your clearly well-meant advice (and neither is your DS on her behalf) so I think all you can do is be led by them?

I also agree about 'current advice' - I don't think there's been that many substantial shifts in best practice in the last 30 or more years. Anne Diamond and the 'back to sleep' campaign was huge in the 90s.

The original post and many of your comments still give off a very strong air of you thinking your way of parenting is most enlightened and that you're just trying to get her to loosen up from her clearly inferior, more rigid parenting. And you say you've overstepped their boundaries and routines more than once and 'got a lecture' in the past. And this is in a post where you are - naturally - trying to paint yourself in the best possible light, as posters do.

I think if we got DIL's side of this it would be a very different story. You raised your kids how you wanted to, let them raise theirs how they want to and stop overriding things you KNOW, because they've told you, that they wouldn't like.

"I really hate how younger women are forced to cow-tow to the older generation who think they know best and don’t respect boundaries."

Except this rarely happens. No one has said that younger people should do exactly as their own parents say. I don't think anyone on this thread has said that dil should listen to her mil on all things because mil is older and wiser and knows everything. But plenty have discounted OPs experience as if it's absolutely worthless and told her to profusely apologise for the heinous crime of making her own judgement re the best thing to do in the middle of the night!
Ageism is a real thing in society - the notion that experience has no value, when it can give valuable perspective.

The ‘value’ of that advice is subjective.

Yours is the odd view. You do gain a certain amount of wisdom (speaking generally) when you've gone through the 'circle of life', births, lives, deaths, etc and maybe a broader perspective than you might have had when you were younger. You get to a certain stage in life, and yes, you pretty much have seen it all before. I've literally never said anything about being "better" than anyone and it's quite bizarre that it's your take on it.

I don't know what age posters are but I'm 61. I live a full life, have plenty of friends, work FT, am married, have much-adored, wonderful adult children, love to travel, yada yada yada, and of late I've felt myself, almost imperceptibly, little by little, become more invisible and less relevant. It's the patronising, "you're old, what would you know?" sneery thing. I may be older but I've as much to give as ever, if not more. I dress well, I'm not overweight, I have no grey hairs and I look younger than my years, but it's there. And it's there right in this thread too. I never expected it.

The value of all advice is subjective.

She sounds anxious to me and I think that she's struggling to relinquish any control. 3 is still young and cot deaths do happen with toddlers on sofas. Personally I think that you overstepped the mark by taking him downstairs where he might get over excited or she might worry about you falling asleep on the sofa together. You would have been better to have warmed his hands and feet by rubbing them and popped socks on, including over his hands if needs be, given him a cuddle to warm up, or alternatively just knocked on their door and got them to deal with him.
It's really hard for someone anxious, particularly a newish mother to trust anyone else with their baby or young child and routines are easily mixed up. I had the same with my in laws and their presence made my anxiety rocket as they were quite pushy at times and accused me of not trusting them, but they were just more relaxed than me about some aspects of safety that made me very uneasy. By the time my kids reached 4ish though, they were far more independent and then I could take a step back a bit and just let them get on with things. I don't think that you should have been rude in your response to her. She's just a mum doing her best. I understand that times have changed and that you raised 4 kids without killing them off, but we are fed so much info about safety today and there is so much info online, that it can start to make you anxious and slightly neurotic as a mother. Just apologize, give it time, take a bit of a step back and then take it from there.

If OP's DIL could just set aside whatever feelings she has of, I don't know, resentment, inadequacy. inexperience, or whatever, I am sure she would find her an invaluable source of advice.

The DIL shouldn't have torn the OP a new one either!

👏👏

If anything it's the other way around. The grandparents being made to know their place. How dare they think that they might be able to meet their new grandchild within a few weeks of its birth? And when they're allowed/expected to do child care for free, 'here's a list of how you have to do it, and don't you dare stray from the list' *

"Know your place, GP, you've had your turn", is a constant refrain on Mumsnet.

• I'm incredibly lucky that my DD trusts me to look after my grandchildren without all these expectations and rules, but I seem to be in a minority.

Here, there & fucking everywhere!

Or maybe she doesn't want advice? I was a very confident mother and didn't need or want any advice. If I did, I'd have asked for it or it was medical and I went to the doctor.

Regarding the 'being dismissed with age' thing. I haven't found that yet (I'm a young looking early 50s), so what age does it start? In all honesty, I found the times I've been dismissed most are as a young mother. I'm sure we all know the drill with doctors, for example, "Oh, is this your first baby?" Like you're over anxious when you know this isn't normal for your baby. In fact, when a doctor said that to me once and I replied, "No, fourth, " all of a sudden their demeanor changed and they started checking more thoroughly. My MIL was dismissive too. If she felt dismissed by me it was because I dimiss people who dismiss me first.

How can you have read this thread, never mind from your own lived experience, and think "younger women are forced to kowtow (that's how you spell it!) to the older generation" when that clearly isn't the case? Young women are far more assertive than they were when I was a young mum and have no problem in telling parents and ILs to sling their hook with their unwanted advice. How many NCs or LCs do you see here on any given day?! If anything it's the older people kowtowing to the younger in order to have grudging access to their grandchildren!

And guess what, if you are a brand new mum and your mum or MIL has had a lot of experience, you would be well advised to at least think about it before you diss it because you know better! I learned that within the first week of being a mum!

Fuck her. She can look after them in her own ridged routine on their own.

Grandparents are not parents. They had their turn.

My mum told me that I was the parent my children needed. She supported what I wanted. It meant I went to her for advice when I needed it and we kept our bond.

You'll only have your DIL respect and build a bond with your son when you respect the people they are and their choices. Try seeing from their perspective!

Wisdom (whatever your age) is knowing when to let people do things their own way and waiting to be asked for advice.

Wisdom is treating your adult children or their partners with some respect and acknowledging their position as new parents, treating them with kindness and not repeatedly overstepping the boundaries you've been given because you think you deserve to due to what..... experience, age?

You still fail to accept that these are not your children, these are grandchildren and your relationship with them will only be as good as the one you have with their parents.

Op knows she overstepped the mark (again) she is just annoyed because she's been told off and guess what being older doesn't exempt you from a telling off!

OP didn't give advice. She cuddled her gc and went downstairs in the middle of the night when he woke up, that's all. Her son then put gc back to bed. Why did DIL have to say anything? It was a one off.

We were advised to rotate our babies on each nap. R side, back, L side, front so their heads would grow evenly!
Also to eat liver or Pate once a week for the iron content and to avoid potatoes that had sprouted "eyes"
I became blase about medical advice because I spent half my first pregnancy in the USA where the advice was, only 1 cup of tea or coffee a day! They thought that was crazy when I got back to Yorkshire!

You still don't get it, even if the advice is top notch unless ops DIL has asked for it then it is irrelevant and unwanted.
The only one that needs to sit back and keep their opinions to herself is op.... if she wants a relationship with her grandchildren at all 🤷‍♀️ she's causing too much stress for it to be worth it at this point imo.

I remember sterilising all the baby bottles when I had my first baby, then throwing them in the sink to rinse the sterilising solution off, thus negating any point in sterilising! Was glad my mum was there to stop me from inadvertently causing my baby to be ill.
And then there was the time he choked and my mum (ex nurse) saved his life. And all the medical advice she gave me including on child no4 when she got really ill - advice which means my daughter is alive and well now. I'm really glad I didn't get pissy and cut her off because she can sometimes often be tactless!

And there we go. Just five posts after nine, and there is is. "They've had their turn"

Well actually they haven't had their turn at grandparenting. And I suspect your attitude will change when it's your turn to be one.