Neighbours complaining about occasional loud music

[Redavocados]

Ok, its a neighbour one. No diagrams!

Name changed for this.

I live in a 2 bed house that is attached on one side. I am a very quiet person, I am single, usually live alone and am happy with silence and can spend days without putting music on. My DS who is late 20's moved back 3 months ago due to work, financial and MH / ND issues. He has had a terrible year and most of last winter he was suicidal having made some bad life decisions, and it was a huge struggle to get him any MH support. He is also very up and down in moods so sometimes I can talk to him about stuff and other times I just have to leave it several days otherwise he can blow up and shout and get angry. Then he is very apologetic and feels terrible afterwards. Needless to say, this is far from an ideal situation, but he is trying hard to sort himself out, engaging in therapy, taking antidepressants, has given up smoking and self-medicating, and is back in work.

Since he last lived here three years ago, I have new neighbours. A young couple, no kids, their first home. Previously had a good relationship with them.

DS has two hobbies, one is a fitness hobby and one is music / recording. When he is down he just sits quietly in his room watching content with headphones, but when he is in a good mood he sometimes sings and records. We both work from home, and the neighbours work from home.

About two months ago I was off work and out for the day and neighbour texted me as DS was playing music in the daytime (on his lunchbreak). I apologised to neighbours, spoke to son and explained that they work from home, so please don't play music in the day. He agreed and hasn't done it again. Then about three weeks ago he played music at 6.30/7pm on a Friday evening, for about 30 minutes. It was loud and bassy, I could hear it around the house, but it wasn't "party" loud, e.g. I could have put on the TV in the other room and still heard the TV over the music without needing to turn it up. As a person who enjoys peace and quiet I didn't love it but I could live with it. After 20 minutes neighbours texted and complained. I immediately asked son to turn it down, they said the bass was loud and that maybe if he turned the bass down it would be better, and could he wear headphones, so I asked him to turn the bass down in future. I also reminded him to wear headphones. I told them I had asked him to turn down bass and use headphones but I also pointed out to them that it was very early evening, after work time, it wasn't an unreasonable time to be playing music and it wasn't for very long (he goes to his fitness class at 7pm anyway).

Tonight, three weeks later he played music again, started at 6.15pm. The bass was less but he was singing loudly. No headphones, I assume because he needed to hear himself sing. I let it go as it was only for a short time and he hadn't played any music for three weeks. After 15 minutes the neighbours sent me a recording of it through their walls and said it is totally unreasonable that they can hear his music in their house. They claimed it had been an hour already.

They went on to say that they can hear him all day and evening. He coughs a lot as he has given up smoking - it drives me absolutely insane but there is nothing I can do besides remind him to use his inhaler and take cough medicine. And he has started closing doors loudly the last week and I have been waiting for him to get out of his latest low mood to ask him not to do that. They also said he bangs the adjoining wall all day - I know for a fact he doesn't because it is a small house and I have been home all week recovering from an operation, and I hear everything.

5 minutes after their first text he stopped playing anyway as he was going out. They are insisting that I am being unreasonable in allowing him to play music. I have explained (not that I should have to explain his personal situation but I did because we were previously on good terms) that he has been unwell and that music is one of the few things that he enjoys, so I am not going to stop him playing music out loud occasionally.

I have pushed back quite firmly that there are things that are annoying and I do get that and am sorry its annoying, but just because someone is annoying you doesn't mean they are actually being unreasonable, and that I don't think playing music once every 2-3 weeks at 6/7pm for 30-60 minutes at a time is unreasonable. I have also explained that it isn't forever, he is here for a year and the plan is that he will move out again next summer.

They are still maintaining - the pissy texts are still ongoing - that I am being inconsiderate and unreasonable and they should not have to hear any of his noise in their house.

I have never had any complaints from previous neighbours when he lived here before, once they just texted to ask if I was OK when they heard him shouting at me.

Am I being unreasonable in pushing back and expecting them to live with the music occasionally as its just early evening, for about half an hour once every few weeks?

My council lists dog barking alongside loud music as something they will investigate so it I suppose it depends where you live whether it is seen as an equal problem and not a separate issue.

I think both your son and the neighbours are being a little unreasonable and you're stuck in the middle!
I know from experience how bloody awful it is to listen to a neighbour's noise and it's why I moved house years ago. I was constantly on edge and it was literally starting to make me ill with stress and anxiety. Listening to someone else's music, especially base, does my head in! I wonder if your neighbours would have less of an issue if your son (or you) could pre-warn them that he was about to play music/sing but that it would stop in half an hour?
The coughing etc is unavoidable and just part of living next door to people. I've had two quiet sets of neighbours since moving but now have a family next door. The banging of doors and thundering up the stairs etc irritates me but there's not an awful lot they can do about normal day to day living sounds. They also have a huge dog that barks at people walking by and knocking on the door but again, not much I can do about that.
If they complain to you again, I'd definitely mention their dog barking!
Oh and as you used to be on good terms with the neighbours, could you go round and have a proper conversation explaining to them kind of what you've said here. It might be far more productive than trying to get your thoughts across via text?

Some occasional noise is absolutely fine. They're being ridiculous.
Don't engage with them any further on the topic.

Could you agree a time for him to have his music with them? It’s easier to try and keep the peace and maintain a decent relationship? Maybe suggest twice a week (no excessive bass) and for set times?

Playing music in your home 'is' allowed if you are in the UK; it is simply not the case that 'everyday' noise is the only noise you can make. Maybe it depends on where you live but dogs barking for hours on end is on a par with loud music to be investigated by my City Council. So are the neighbours 'selfish' 'spoilt' to expect the OP to put up with the barking dog. It is completely anti-social and hours of it worse than some music for half an hour.

I think it depends how you treat your neighbours as to how much consideration you can expect from them. I've always been a very quiet neighbour. I prefer not to use earbuds but have always out of consideration. Yesterday, by lunchtime, the neighbour's kid had 3 half hour rounds of kicking the ball against the fence right by my window by lunch time. You bet I had my music playing in the garden for an hour between 7.30-8.30. I don't care what they think.

I agree they should sort out their dog.

But no-one is suggesting they expect complete silence.

What should be happening is that people should have consideration for other people and not be anti-social and particularly, should not continue to do so when they know it's distressing other people.

And even more when there is a very simple solution here which is don't do it because it's disturbing other people or wear headphones.

This isn't a baby crying or someone who needs to use their washing machine or have a new bathroom put in. That's 'reasonable' noise that people either can't control or have no choice over doing.

This is a man in his 20s disturbing other people when he knows it does and thinking 'fuck them' instead of not doing it or using headphones.

My Gran is in her 90s and deaf as a post. Guess what? when she watches TV she uses headphones that she can turn up to the max, she doesn't think "well, if people want to live in society, they should just accept antisocial behaviour from others and I'm old so if my neighbours hear my TV blaring, tough shit, old people exist and other people have to put it up with excessive noise because that's just how it is".

Because she's a reasonable person and not an asshole who thinks other people should suffer because of what she wants or needs.

Hearing someone elses music or TV in a built-up area is not a 'reasonable expectation that fucking happens' in the modern age of personal headphones.

How about people should have a 'reasonable expectation' that people in built up areas give a shit about other people due to living in a built-up area and don't blast out their (usually shit) music which disturbs multiple people, and use headphones?

Surely that's the more reasonable expectation?

That one person slightly adapts their behaviour in a very easy way and that benefits the whole area?

Your son is leading a normal life. My adult DS is noisy moving around the house but there’s nothing I can do about it.
Your son’s music is not unreasonable - they work from home and sound as if they spend an unusual amount of time at home. This is not your problem. Nor is it your problem that they chose a terraced house.
I’d prefer you as a neighbour to my current one who has two constantly barking dogs and two teens who thunder up and down their wooden stairs at all hours, and cannot leave the house without slamming the door.
I hope your son gets himself back on track with his mental health etc. It’s very hard on you during this time.

I think most people would assume the OP is UK based considering Mumsnet was founded in the UK. Most advice on here will be pointless if the OP is in Sweden for example.

It's really not normal to be distressed by half an hour of music every couple of weeks.

Fine but the OP's neighbours clearly don't have consideration as they would sort the dog out, consideration has to be given as well as received.

This is up there with parents who let their child play the fucking trumpet in a flat, which I have been dealing with.I know I can't complain, but I am autistic and have panic attacks thinking about when it is going to start.

They can't complain if you put on some music to drown it out for yourself, can they?

I think learning an instrument is fine, but it needs to be kept to reasonable amounts of practice.

meet somewhere in the middle, ask son to use headphones for music and I’d block their number tbh. But them complaining that he is coughing is absolutely ridiculous.

You are not being unreasonable. Ask me how I know. After years of wearing headphones for hours on end so I don't 'disturb' anyone around me, I now have a continuous ringing noise in my ears and some (very small) degree of hearing loss. And no - I wasn't playing it especially loudly, but the audiologist explained that prolonged usage of headphones is just not great for your ears.

Unless you, your son, your visitors, anyone in your house really, does something legitimately unreasonable and loud, in antisocial hours, then I'm sorry but it sounds like your neighbours just haven't twigged yet that there is normal noise caused during daily life and this noise travels. Same as when they're running their lawnmower, a baby cries, dogs bark, washing machines rattle, neighbours doing building work, it's just part of life. Unless your son's music is played at an insanely loud level, then they are being unreasonable. Maybe mention their dog barking to them, and how you consider it a part of life.

I hope all the people telling OP to kick her son out ect never have to experience a child grown up or otherwise with mental health problems and how dark that can get. Yes kick him out and take away his support network - Great idea!

The bloke has played music loudly THREE times total since moving in - Keep it real folkes.

@ThisQuickLeader

"My Gran is in her 90s and deaf as a post. Guess what? when she watches TV she uses headphones that she can turn up to the max"

But the son isn't playing his music to the max. The OP said she can put her own TV on at a normal sound level and hear it perfectly fine while he's playing his music.

@Redavocados I voted that you're being unreasonable because what stood out to me is that your neighbours have conplained about every noise your son makes except for his outbursts and verbal abuse of you.
You say that his yelling at you can be so bad your previous, more tolerant neighbours checked in with you to make sure you were ok.
That means your new neighbours can hear him yelling at you, too, but I suspect they don't know how to bring that up with you, so they're complaining about every other little noise they hear him make. Perhaps in the hope you'll twig and realise they're hearing every outburst, all his rages and yelling.
It's so, so hard when someone you love is in a bad place. But I think it might help to remember that they don't know your son, they don't love him dearly and hold out hope that things will turn around for him.
For them, it's just terrifying outbursts that can happen at any time, and that they can't get away from.
I really think you need to at least be more sympathetic in your interactions with your neigbours. And do everything you can to help your son be as quiet as possible - keeping yourself safe, of course.
All the best, and I hope really are on their way up for your son.

Because he needs the support of his mum.

The music may be unreasonable, but the fact that they are so sensitive to every day noise like coughing suggests YANBU.

Consideration is a two way street- it's inconsiderate to play really loud music, party all night, have regular screaming matches etc. But, it's also inconsiderate to expect your neighbours lives to revolve around you, and for them to creep around like church mice so you can be completely undisturbed.

The only way to get complete silence is to buy a detached property on a large plot.

Also, those saying this only happens because 'young people today are so much more entitled' may like this 1940s era Gert and Daisy skit:

Gert: The neighbours were banging on the wall again last night
Daisy: What on earth for?
Gert: Complaining they could hear our wireless right through in their living room.
Daisy: What did you do?
Gert: Shouted back if that was the case they ought to contribute to the repayments for it!

Well for the past two years I have had to listen to their dog bark every time they go out

I would mention this to them next time they complain and remind them that if they can hear noise from your house, you can hear noise from theirs.

You’ve approached it reasonably but they’re not prepared to compromise. I think you are right to tell them to jog on at this stage. Also either block their number, or tell them you will report them for harassment if they continue and are keeping their messages as evidence.

Given they are also complaining about normal noise like coughing, he isn't the problem.

Tbh, the son is turning it down from 11pm. If that is the case, just accept for what it is. There has to he compromise here (unlike my NDNs who just carried on till 2am not giving a flying fuck that we were up early next day, weekend or not). Selfish c*nts.