Neighbours complaining about occasional loud music

[Redavocados]

Ok, its a neighbour one. No diagrams!

Name changed for this.

I live in a 2 bed house that is attached on one side. I am a very quiet person, I am single, usually live alone and am happy with silence and can spend days without putting music on. My DS who is late 20's moved back 3 months ago due to work, financial and MH / ND issues. He has had a terrible year and most of last winter he was suicidal having made some bad life decisions, and it was a huge struggle to get him any MH support. He is also very up and down in moods so sometimes I can talk to him about stuff and other times I just have to leave it several days otherwise he can blow up and shout and get angry. Then he is very apologetic and feels terrible afterwards. Needless to say, this is far from an ideal situation, but he is trying hard to sort himself out, engaging in therapy, taking antidepressants, has given up smoking and self-medicating, and is back in work.

Since he last lived here three years ago, I have new neighbours. A young couple, no kids, their first home. Previously had a good relationship with them.

DS has two hobbies, one is a fitness hobby and one is music / recording. When he is down he just sits quietly in his room watching content with headphones, but when he is in a good mood he sometimes sings and records. We both work from home, and the neighbours work from home.

About two months ago I was off work and out for the day and neighbour texted me as DS was playing music in the daytime (on his lunchbreak). I apologised to neighbours, spoke to son and explained that they work from home, so please don't play music in the day. He agreed and hasn't done it again. Then about three weeks ago he played music at 6.30/7pm on a Friday evening, for about 30 minutes. It was loud and bassy, I could hear it around the house, but it wasn't "party" loud, e.g. I could have put on the TV in the other room and still heard the TV over the music without needing to turn it up. As a person who enjoys peace and quiet I didn't love it but I could live with it. After 20 minutes neighbours texted and complained. I immediately asked son to turn it down, they said the bass was loud and that maybe if he turned the bass down it would be better, and could he wear headphones, so I asked him to turn the bass down in future. I also reminded him to wear headphones. I told them I had asked him to turn down bass and use headphones but I also pointed out to them that it was very early evening, after work time, it wasn't an unreasonable time to be playing music and it wasn't for very long (he goes to his fitness class at 7pm anyway).

Tonight, three weeks later he played music again, started at 6.15pm. The bass was less but he was singing loudly. No headphones, I assume because he needed to hear himself sing. I let it go as it was only for a short time and he hadn't played any music for three weeks. After 15 minutes the neighbours sent me a recording of it through their walls and said it is totally unreasonable that they can hear his music in their house. They claimed it had been an hour already.

They went on to say that they can hear him all day and evening. He coughs a lot as he has given up smoking - it drives me absolutely insane but there is nothing I can do besides remind him to use his inhaler and take cough medicine. And he has started closing doors loudly the last week and I have been waiting for him to get out of his latest low mood to ask him not to do that. They also said he bangs the adjoining wall all day - I know for a fact he doesn't because it is a small house and I have been home all week recovering from an operation, and I hear everything.

5 minutes after their first text he stopped playing anyway as he was going out. They are insisting that I am being unreasonable in allowing him to play music. I have explained (not that I should have to explain his personal situation but I did because we were previously on good terms) that he has been unwell and that music is one of the few things that he enjoys, so I am not going to stop him playing music out loud occasionally.

I have pushed back quite firmly that there are things that are annoying and I do get that and am sorry its annoying, but just because someone is annoying you doesn't mean they are actually being unreasonable, and that I don't think playing music once every 2-3 weeks at 6/7pm for 30-60 minutes at a time is unreasonable. I have also explained that it isn't forever, he is here for a year and the plan is that he will move out again next summer.

They are still maintaining - the pissy texts are still ongoing - that I am being inconsiderate and unreasonable and they should not have to hear any of his noise in their house.

I have never had any complaints from previous neighbours when he lived here before, once they just texted to ask if I was OK when they heard him shouting at me.

Am I being unreasonable in pushing back and expecting them to live with the music occasionally as its just early evening, for about half an hour once every few weeks?

But all of those things going on in your life aren’t the neighbours problem (I’ve had several major surgeries recently, baby that’s had multiple surgeries and juggling work etc etc).

You aren’t getting driven up the wall because it’s your son and you are putting up with it for his MH, but the behaviour you describe sounds absolutely nuts. Constantly loud coughing, doors banging, bass music and singing.

You have obviously posted to get people thinking you’re in the right, but I feel sorry for your neighbours, your son sounds like a selfish oaf, being depressed doesn’t give you license to be inconsiderate to others. If it just one thing fine, but it’s multiple things and they are clearly being driven nuts by it. It’s selfish not to be mindful of neighbours, I am of mine and they are of me. We have a lovely relationship with then because of this.

Normally I am on the other side of these threads, I'm very sensitive to noise, I really do not want to listen to anyone else's music.
Particularly in my garden ( apparently according to numerous previous threads IABU on that, people do have a right to play their irritating music in their gardens so it is Not Quiet....)
But in this case, a young man listening to a bit of music in his home once or twice a week?
I don't see the problem.
You are reasonable to expect neighbours to be considerate but in this case I think its completely reasonable to listen to his music without headphones occasionally.
I reckon they have got used to it being completely quiet all the time and don't like the change, but that's life - he has accommodated them by modifying what he does and when he listens to his music, they have to give a bit.

I'm not ok with disturbing my neighbours at all. Just don't do it. Life is stressful enough without listening to someone singing so loudly it can be recorded, or their baseline pumping. Also some people do a shouty cough/throat clear that I can't stand! Very mumsnet moan, I know, but some will know what I mean.

But accomodating them is what has got the OP I'm this position to begin with. After all she hasn't commented on their dog noise and by not doing so it makes them think they are entitled to make noise but not tolerate it in return.

The best thing you can do OP is just reply, "ok, thanks for letting me know' perhaps on repeat.

Also why can't he play his music in another room so it isn't against their wall?

I can sympathise with the neighbours. We lived in a terrace house before and got new neighbours who played a lot of music. The bass sounded a lot worse in our house than it did in theirs and was very very intrusive, even at a normalish volume. What was probably more stressful was not knowing when it wad going to start up again and how long it would be for. Maybe you could try and pre plan some times so that they can know when and how long it will be on for? That would have made it less stressful in my experience.

You can't live your life tip toeing around. I would explain you can also hear their going ons & it's part of life living in a semi-detached house. We also live in a semi-detached & can hear the neighbours flick their switch. I've heard their phone ring, coughing/sneezing, shouting. It is what it is - they need to suck it up given it's not unreasonable noise!

I'd advise them to contact the council and get noise monitoring.
It doesn't sound like the noise your son is making is actually excessive.

Noise regulation normally accepts routine noise - a bit of music is part of that and sometime those who make noise complaints need to realise that.

I'm not a noise apologist by any means and my neighbours will tell you I'm often the first to make a fuss about DIY type noise outside the permitted hours in our building but normal household music or music practice is something I would expect to just have to suck up (like properly notified building work within the permitted hours).

They are being ridiculous. Honestly, how has it come to this that people aren't allowed to play music in their own home for a short time every few weeks? My neighbours do this every couple of weeks when their relatives come over and yes it's a couple of hours of cheesy 80s music but I hear them laughing and having a good time and it brings a smile to my face. It also makes me relaxed that if I have a party or social gathering, they wouldn't mind either. What's wrong with people today that everyone is so miserable and can't accept the occasional sound of music?

I'm not a fan of noise and quite sensitive to it, but it doesn't sound like your son is making excessive noise. I don't have much sympathy for working from home as an issue. It's not an office. If neighbourhood normal living is a problem, go back to the office. I'd ask him to turn down the bass but he is allowed to listen to music if it's infrequent and short.

My neighbours have to listen to my music occasionally but that's only because their son has an annoying habit of kicking balls against the fence regularly. Fair's fair, right?

If your son is really not making excess noise then I'd tell the neighbours that you've never complained about their dogs, your son isn't being unreasonable and stop complaining because it's starting to look like harrassment.

Tell them about their dog.

and say that you are comfortable
steps you have taken are reasonBlwmand they should not expect to not hear noise.

it is the reality of living in an attached house.

The poor neighbours, sounds like they are at the end of their tether with the constant noise at all hours.

Why is he constantly coughing? That isn't normal, has he been to the doctors?

And if the council come back and say his noise is invasive out of line?

Thank you

He can be really bloody annoying but he is trying so hard, he has made HUGE amounts of progress in the last few months on some very major things, and I don't want to have to kick him down on one of the two things he enjoys that helps him relax.

They also don't have to deal with him being intensely sensitive to criticism.

I may sound overprotective of him but I am not. We have had a fractured relationship for years and I am doing this now because he is genuinely trying hard and I see this as a window of hope to get him on a normal life track before he hits 30.

@roseymoira doesnt sound like it is all hours though does it?

They also don't have to deal with him being intensely sensitive to criticism.
Why would they?
You seem to think they should have the same proud, aww bless, opinion of him that you have.

Yes, I agree, I think most problems in the world are because people have forgotten how to give and take. I was always playing loud music as a teen in the late 90s, I did live in a detached house but my neighbours had adult children and they didn't care. I even had an 18th party that was pretty loud and my Mum let them know and they joked about inviting them. I currently have teens that play music but we live next to a house share of men and one of them plays films loudly all night in the week as he is a self employed film director and it is the room next to me DD who has school in the morning. I don't feel anything can be said at 11 but at 2 am on a Tuesday it is a bit annoying that said they are teenagers and play music on a record player. Mostly have headphones on though but my DD practices piano so I think it is given and take.

What about a dog barking that is intensely annoying if you don't have a dog?

I can see both sides. As someone who lives in a 1950s semi with a totally inconsiderate neighbour who lives with 3 loud and obnoxious kids that she regularly screams at, plus an untrained dog (beagle) that cries/howls all the time, especially when left home alone, I feel your neighbours pain. I WFH and some years back when at its worst, had colleagues comment on the background noise coming from next door when on a video meeting.

We’ve reported to the council twice and had some verbal altercations with both the Mum and her parents (who visit regularly) after some of the worst episodes of sustained and unreasonable noise (think strangers knocking at my door due to the dog being left outside howling all day to ask if I had my neighbours contact details or the kids playing a game involving parkour jumping from sofa to sofa, banging the ceiling and walls for 2.5 hours when left alone one evening). Whilst it isn’t perfect, as the kids have grown older, it has improved and the Mum does intervene now, particularly with the dog when it’s being noisy and she’s at home.

That said, I also recognise people have the right to live their lives and with that, especially when you choose to buy an attached house in an urban/suburban environment, comes a certain amount of normal hustle, bustle and noise. They have to accept that and it may be in your interest to start making a little more noise yourself in your day to day activities at home, so they don’t expect to revert to total silence when your son moves out next year.

Encourage them to keep a noise diary (and you do the same for both your son’s music playing and their dog barking) and then if they want to report to the council as a noise complaint, they will have an objective party inform them that what they are experiencing is not antisocial or excessive noise, which will hopefully be enough to stop the constant messages.

There won't for 30 minutes on a Friday at 6.30pm even with bass. I had terrible neighbours in a flat, the police were involved and despite peeping through are letter box at 3am drunk shouting and swearing at us for weeks on end at my babies at the time they did nothing!

Our not are

The thing is when you live around other people you have to expect noise. Whether it be music, kids, doors banging, cars starting, coughing, shagging, dogs barking...whatever. No human can exist silently all of the time and if they honestly are going to be so put out by reasonable noise during reasonable hours then I'm afraid they need to move somewhere more remote or at least a detached house.

People will say it's entitlement for your son to play music. I say entitlement works both ways and it's entitled for them to expect other people to give up the things they enjoy in their own homes (given that it's at a reasonable level of course).

If it carries on I'd remind them about their barking dog. They can also report you to the council if they feel that strongly about it but absolutely nothing will be done. My elderly mil had a couple next to her who'd do DIY throughout the night and even then, with a diary/sound clips of the noise the council did nothing but write a letter.

@Reugny We don't know how loud or/and bad the OP's son is.
People don't tend to complain if someone is a decent musician/singer unless they are playing in the middle of the night.

What planet do you live on?? Being a decent musician / singer has nothing to do with anything.

People actually complain about all sorts of things these days! Some of them are just entitled and expect everyone to bow down to their wishes.

OP has clearly stated that her son can make a noise - but it seems he doesn't create noise at unsocial / anti-social hours and it doesn't last for a long time.

So I don't understand why people are giving her such a hard time!?

We all have neighbours ..... who have made noise that others can hear at times
We are all neighbours ...... and have made noise that others can hear at times

Some neighbours are really inconsiderate and don't care about other people - from what OP has said she very definitely does care.

I still think @Redavocados you should politely ignore your neighbours' texts because they're being entitled idiots!

When I read these posts, I always assume the poster is playing the noise and anti social behaviour down. And therefore guess that what you’ve described here is the toned down version of what’s going on. Living next door to inconsiderate neighbours is a nightmare. You might want to let him get away with stuff because he’s had a bad year, but you shouldn’t make your problem the neighbours’ problem too. If you’re enabling him to think what he’s doing is acceptable, if he is a noisy neighbour, when he moves out next year to live alone, he’ll be moving back in with you pretty quick, because not everyone will be as understanding, and his next neighbours might (rightly so) put in a complaint about him to the council. That’s the reality.

@Goldenbear absolutely it is give and take. And of course, if it was every night or even a few nights a week that might be annoying but it's not the case for OP. I have two DC and I jokingly apologise sometimes to my neighbours for the noise and they always say 'don't worry we once had small kids so we know what it's like' and it's part of why I don't mind their occasional music.
I would love to see if in a few years OPs neighbours have a baby, what that would be like? I'm sure the tables would be turned and they would be eating humble pie.