Christmas and a Muslim husband .. help!

[AmberHiker]

Hello everyone I’d really like some outside perspective because I’m literally drained from going around in circles with my husband .

He is a born Muslim. He is on and off with the level of practising but mainly sticks to the key principles of Islam but has not been praying for some years now . I am a revert. I am not a ‘ practising ‘ Muslim but I believe in Islam and what it stands for .

we have a 8 year old son and I have older kids who aren’t Muslim. For the past 11 years I’ve changed up Christmas but not given it up as for me it was never about the relegious aspect it was about the feeling , the gift giving and decorating the home plus enjoying all the foods and so on. With our son I still decorate the home and we exchange gifts a few days before Christmas. He is aware of who god is to him and to us and what we believe in.

my husband has really been giving me a hard time over recent weeks . He has stated I’m a Christian which I’m not and that I’m acting just like one . He refuses to agree that for me I’ve never linked Christmas to religion and he’s never seen me do it. He keeps going into massive tantrums pointing out I’m showing our son the wrong way . This is making me upset as I don’t feel we have much to look forward too in the uk and Christmas is a nice time of year. I enjoy the festivity and owe it to my older grown children to share with them.

when I point out that he is not doing anything that would identify him as a Muslim to me if I didn’t know him he gets offended. He is not practising not praying not fasting but is determined to take this away from me and our son. like I said if he was devout I could understand the possible problem by example having a tree in the house decorated but he isn’t and the whole thing seems so stupid .

for context he was previously married to a devout Christian who taught and showed him about Christmas ( this is where I think he has the impression it’s for relegious people ) and during their marriage Christmas a big thing in their home too, but so was bacon and alcohol. If I was to ask him was he a Muslim where he was married to her he would say yes he was yet that was allowed to happen …

sorry for the rant but all I do is share some gifts and decorate the home yet it’s a constant battle any mention of the c word and boom it’s a argument. He said I should spend the same effort showing our son about Islam but when I pointed out it’s his job as the man to lead he said he doesn’t have time to show him.. 😂

am I wrong to not give it up

Thankfully it's all moot, op is not going to let this man bully her and ruin her and her dc Christmas.

so the whataboutery isn’t really appropriate.

I'm musing on his general behaviour. I don't think it is whataboutery. The quote I've given from mumstheword includes The Prophet peace be upon has said: “Whosover resembled a people then he is from them”. The DH is wearing the hat for the precise purpose of resembling those who celebrate Christmas as a festival, religious or not, and is therefore haram.

I accept that two wrongs don't make a right and if this is the point in his life where he returns to his Muslim beliefs and behaviour you, other Muslims and Allah will rejoice. But you recognise that this is a big if.

Oh here we go again. The poster I replied to asked for a Muslim view on celebrating Christmas. The poster is agnostic so I gave more emphasis to the non religious aspect of why it’s forbidden.

I wasn’t referencing OP or her husband. In fact my last paragraph says she can do as she wants as she is free to do so but as she believes it isn't a sin (as per her previous posts) it's only right to correct her as her Muslim sister.

No I have, but the fatwas are the fatwas, you seem ardent in arguing against one. But islamically we aren’t meant to imitate the disbelievers and Christmas, Easter etc are non Muslim celebrations ergo to celebrate them is imitating the disbelievers.

Jesus didn’t appropriate Christmas, that came when the Roman Empire adopted Christianity and the Muslim holidays aren’t fixed, they move every year so it’s unlikely that they were used as a sub for there pagan festivities of the pagan meccans.

Reading this thread, I'm so glad I'm not religious.
I can celebrate whatever I want.
I can eat and drink whatever I want.
I can wear whatever I want.
And I don't have to do what my husband tells me to do.

This isn't about Christmas.

This is about him. Maybe he has been talking to someone/thinking about himself and his religion and could mentally be on the path to becoming practicing but hasn't started yet.

Instead of working on himself he is trying to control you and your son.

Totally agree that he should teach your son what he wants him to know about the religion he was born into. Why is it down to you? He needs to practice what he wants his son to follow.

@Mvslimah I am not Muslim but from a Muslim majority country where we also have Islamic religious classes.
The problem IMO is the distinction between culture and religion. Islam is a religion that's a way of life but it's also one embraced by people of different cultures, who may also have their own cultural practices, separate from religion.
While Christmas is a Christian religious festival here in the UK it's more cultural. The fastest growing 'religious' group in the UK are atheists/agnostic, they also celebrate Christmas. It's mostly focused on gift giving, family time etc that quite frankly has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus. Very few people actually go to church or do anything remotely religious.

That is why, for what OP is doing, it's not clear.

@mumstheword223 @Mvslimah Will NC after this as I never wanted to reveal my country of origin on MN. But this is an example of what one of our state religious council has to say
https://muftiwp.gov.my/en/artikel/tahqiq-al-masail/2919-tahqiq-al-masail-7-wishing-merry-christmas-to-christians

Essentially, the prohibition of celebration is related to glorifying other religions, or doing 'as the non-believers'.

So something like going to Mass, carols which praise the Lord etc are all prohibited.
Exchanging gifts aren't.
A christmas tree is a bit 50/50 because it could be a religious symbol but these days, it's a cultural decoration so not clear.

and the Muslim holidays aren’t fixed, they move every year

I disagree. Islam adopted a lunar calendar because of the greater prominence of the moon rather than the sun in the writings of the Quran. Within the lunar calendar all religious dates are fixed (eg Ramadan is the ninth month). They only appear to move to those whose only reference is the solar calendar.

(I really should quit with the theological debate which has nothing to do with the OP. I'll stop now.)

You’re not understanding that fatwa correctly, this correlates to what I believe but it clearly states

All in all, it is impermissible for Muslims to celebrate the religious celebration of non-Muslims for it is an act of glorifying the eminence of their religion. In fact, for Muslims, their day of celebration holds no significance for it is just like any other normal days.

They (the scholars) also prohibit helping (the non-Muslims) in their celebrations such as giving them gifts or buying or selling anything that they need for their celebrations. It is prohibited to sell meat, blood, clothes and it is prohibited to lend them animals for transport or helping in anything for their celebration. The reason is, it is prohibited to help them in glorifying their polytheism belief and their acts of disbelief towards Allah SWT.

Congratulating them for their celebration is not a form of acknowledgement of their religion, but just as a form of mujamalah (courteous words) among humans. This is important if we have family members, friends or neighbours who are Christians and we are living in a society of multi-religious country. However, celebrating or participating in their celebration is prohibited. (Refer Sina’ah al-Fatwa wa Fiqh al-Aqalliyyat, pg. 430-435)

This is an education given that I can think of at least 20 convenience stores within a mile radius of my house, run by Muslims, selling Christmas lights, tinsel, wrapping paper, cards, foods, bottles of Baileys, etc. Are they all doing it wrong, then?

If you read the fatwa a PP posted or want to google, you’ll find out.

the selling I think is a bit more ambiguous because if it’s more generic wrapping paper who can say what someone is using it for? Plus you’ve got the fact that they need to earn a living. But according to this fatwa, yes it’s forbidden and they by default would be ‘wrong’. alcohol there is no grey area,that is haram, unequivocally.

but attending functions outside church and exchanging gifts with the point of view to be polite and maintain ties is disliked but ok.

this is the rulings I follow for my life (the fatwa attached)

Yes.

God it sounds utterly tiresome. All religions I mean not just Islam. Life is short, why spend it agonising about whether a made up bloke will get cross with you for selling a Christmas tree.

Me too.

If all feels silly. Dictated to by books written by men a long time ago. 🙄

😂100% stupid

Thanks for your feedback, we’ll make sure to pass it on in our next meeting 🙄

I doubt they'd listen unless a man wrote it down at least a 1000 years ago. 😅

This is all totally irrelevant because he isn’t religious enough to give a shit about this rule. He gives his older kids Christmas presents. Je wears a Santa hat in his taxi. He hasn’t taught his child to prey. He’d just another man controlling and criticising his wife so don’t go defending that with fatwas please.

Exactly. So the religious posts about what you can and can't do are all irrelevant to the op's husband who just sounds a prat.

It’s not because the comment you quoted was a response to another poster asking if the Muslim shoppers around her were ‘wrong’. The comment you quoted isn’t about the OP or her husband 👍🏻

Utterly tiresome 🤣 I hope your fingers aren’t too tired from all the hate you’ve been dishing out. We get it, you hate religion, particularly Islam as you indirectly posted in one of your posts a few days ago ‘I’m getting sick of the islamification in this country’.. your existence and choice to follow no religion makes no difference to me so I hope you aren’t losing any sleep over Muslims and Islam.

I don't think that is hate. People can express a view who are atheist if they like. The UK is just over 50% atheist - so about 37m atheist and about 48% Christian so it would be going a bit far for anyone to to talk about Islamification - islam is pretty de minimis in the UK compared to the bigger groups. The main change in the UK is the move to atheism which is likely to continue. Some groups to keep their members true will always try to stay apart for obviously reasons - FDLS, Jehovah's witnesses or even move to remote regions like the Gloriavale Christians in New Zealand (and Amish etc in USA) as the more TV and contact with others the more likely people will marry outside and fall away in their faith (or their delusion depending on how you look at it). Not looking online or having TV is a fairly good way to protect some religions but not everyone wants to do that.

Erm I think it’s more than clear they hate what Islam teaches… and when did I say they can’t express that? Humans can hate things, people, religion etc it’s a natural feeling.

At no point on this thread did I mock their choice to be atheist but the same cannot be said for some of these posters.. Octopus literally said ‘100% stupid’ for following a religion… that’s an insult btw but you’ll probably defend that next …

I just don't get the fuss. My church going parents swap Xmas and Eid presents with their Muslim neighbours, everyone seems happy. So presumably both sets of elderly folk are doing it wrong, rather than being nice.