To expect some basic manners from children?

[vickidoodah]

Twice in the last 24 hours kids have been unfriendly and not corrected by their parents.

1. looked after DC (8) class mate all day. Parent arrives to collect them and child is rude to parent then refuses to thank us or return to say goodbye after walking out without saying anything. Parent rolls eyes and says child is tired.
2. meet up with friend and their 2 children. I say hi to them and her DC 9 looks at me and otherwise ignores me. I raise eyebrow to friend who says they need to warm up and will be fine in about 20mins.

AIBU to think the parents are not helping their children by excusing this rude behaviour? All children NT.

YANBU at all. 20 yo DD has just started working at a popular family attraction - she comes home everyday amazed by how little manners parents are teaching their children these days! A huge amount simply could not
care less about their child’s behaviour. Societal decline has begun. I think that Covid and iPad kids have a lot to do with it. The amount of children (and parents) who seem to find a simple please and thank you difficult is alarming. She deals with kids mainly between age 7-10, almost all of them need their parents to speak for them and are ‘too shy’ to acknowledge anyone else. It’s ridiculous in my opinion. DD was an incredibly shy child but there’s no way I would’ve let her away with blatantly ignoring people.

thats because we’re all told our children are neuro diverse and the world needs to accommodate them and respect them and meet their needs and basically revolve around the little snowflakes…

If the parents don’t have the basic manners themselves, how can they teach them to their own children?

YANBU! I don't care if your little Timmy is tired, they need to learn (simple) manners. Parents love to take the easy way out, and therefore nobody benefits long term.

My son, 22, was taught manners from the get go. I was considered 'old school' by many. If he did not say please, he didn't get whatever it was until he did etc. Really clear, consistent boundaries. I rarely had to worry about being let down by his manners and could take him pretty much anywhere. Even now, university and employers have commented on how pleasant he is. These parents who make excuses are doing nobody any favours. I work supporting additional needs and neurodiverse students and they have manners or are reminded when they forget as they too will need to function in society.

YABU in the first instance, the person who should be thanking you should be the parent as you have provided care for their child.

It is possible the child would have preferred to be at home and not being offloaded to someone else and deeply resented it.

If it was their choice to be at your house it is different and I would expect thanks.

In the second instance - you've gone to meet your friend, whose children happen to be there. You're not there to see them, they're not there to see you and it doesn't sound like they were happy that you were there.

I think you seem to think your presence is worthy of thanks when children might view it differently.

It's called lazy parenting..My DS is ND and he's extremely polite. Always says hello, how are you, have a good day, thank you etc. It sounds a bit robotic but it's always appreciated. So don't want to hear ND being an excuse for not being polite. It's just lazy parents who don't care to have a potential conflict with their children so they opt out from parenting. They probably think it's the teachers job in school to teach manners, which they do but it's really not their primary role.

I think you seem to think your presence is worthy of thanks when children might view it differently.

And there's one of your answers. Rude adults = rude kids.
A simple hello should be met with a similar response. The OP wasn't expecting a detailed interaction

My young gcs have very good manners, my fab dil and my son have instilled them into their children from toddlerhood, as did I. I notice her nieces also have excellent manners and all the kids make eye contact and say hello, even if they’re feeling shy. It can be done if you’re willing to put in the work. I don’t know if some parents realise how important manners and social confidence are; that’s why privately educated children often do so well.They have the soft skills people appreciate.

Yes, that’s how I’d view it.

YANBU. I have been shocked by how rude my DC’s friends are when I’ve hosted playdates. No pleases or thank yous from at the majority of them. I now encourage friendships with the more polite few because the others really get my goat. These are all children from families with lovely parents but they are not doing any favours for their rude offspring.

My son is ND, wasn't verbal for a long time, attends send school etc and he's not thinking about manners, but it's tough. We remind him and even if he's not wanting to talk he uses makaton to sign please/thank you.
(Obviously not if he's distressed etc or having a full on meltdown, but basic manners aren't going to be left out of his every day life)

I find loads of kids aren't raised with manners and I don't get it, why would you raise your children to be a rude adult?

I do the much disliked gentle parenting that mumsnet dislikes but my kids manners are beautiful, they apologise if they're in the wrong and they're growing into people I'd choose to be friends with. I'm not friends with my children whilst they're still kids, my hope is treating them respectfully and teaching them manners, upholding and respecting boundaries and generally not being little dickheads at least most of the time will leave me with well rounded adult children who I like spending time with and likewise.
If they didn't have that ability to use manners I'd not want to be pals with them, manners are important to me.

Some of my friends dc are really ill-mannered and pretty rude when they want things to their parents but I'm that annoying "magic word" adult so I get manners.

My parents growing up were quite rude and unpleasant and I found them very embarrassing, so I think that's why I feel so strongly.

I was always a bit nonplussed when other parents told me how polite dd was. She had just been taught the politeness to grown-ups I'd expect from anyone, but people would always comment on her good manners. Maybe they were just used to their own kids not saying please and thank you, but that's down to them not being consistent in instilling good behaviour isn't it?

Another everyone elses kids are not as perfect as mine thread.

I would expect my DC to interact with friends’ parents just to say hello and thanks (not discussing philosophy or the balance of payments) because it teaches them social skills. It doesn’t matter if it’s forced, or if they’re tired. If they are able to play and eat that person’s food, they can acknowledge that and say at least one word.

Anything less is rude and lazy parenting. It encourages arrogance and generational divides.

Parroting please and thank you because you have been forced to is not true manners.

I believe in all adults modelling good manners to children, by being polite and considerate to them and maybe understanding that a younger, less developed human may not yet have the same level of social communication skills that they have.

I don't see why children have to fake gratitude for a favour given to their parents, which may have been a negative experience for them.

Parroting things is what children learn. Not everything has to be deeply held.

In your examples I’m the first I’d have thanked you and told my child off for it in the car. I am not sure what you wanted the parent to do drag them back and force them? My dc do have good manners and were often complimented on them but as young children they slipped up sometimes and I would correct them later.

in the 2nd example I had a very shy child who just wouldn’t have spoken and he used to get distressed because he thought he ‘be naughty’ when we were out because it turns out my ed his dad was telling him off for his personality because he cred more about how he looked. He wouldn’t have spoken up initially but did often ‘warm up’ after a while but was still never the life and sole even after that and still isn’t at 18.
He did always say please and thank you which to me was much more important than saying hello to some random friend or acquaintance of mine. They could be offended I wasn’t going to tell
him off for being shy.

Not at all. My kids can be impolite- but I pull them up on it.

@Ohfuckrucksack

Your point of view is part of the problem.

In the first instance the child was a guest, hosted by the OP, and of course the child should be taught that when he or she is a guest then a thank you is appropriate.

In the second instance it is always polite to return a hello from a friend or acquaintance. It’s irrelevant whether the children had a choice in being there, returning a friendly greeting is appropriate regardless.

The children who aren’t taught these basic social skills will face more difficulties in life because they could unwittingly appear rude. Teaching social skills, including manners, is so important to help children navigate social interactions as they grow older. Doors are far more likely to open for individuals who are taught these skills, and learn to use them reflexively, and the rude ones will be at a major disadvantage in education, in friendships and at work.

In the first example, I would expect the parent to pull their child up over the behaviour on the way home. I don't think there was much to be gained by making a scene on your doorstep.

In the second example, how was she after 20 minutes? If she warmed up and was otherwise polite I would say the parent was correct to leave it. Again, it's something I would work on with the child in private, I don't think there is much to be gained from humiliating a shy child infront of someone. If she's just generally rude then I agree with you.

Child 1 definitely wanted to be here and wanted to stay (I think that’s what triggered the rudeness to parent).

in the second instance our DDs do an activity together. We were at the activity and older DS was there. I said hi, he ignored me. I don’t expect anyone to be grateful for my company. I do expect to be acknowledged when I say hello!

Nope, nice try though at having a dig at those of us who expect kids and their parents to have basic manners. Your own bar must be awfully low if you don’t think that being courteous to others is a necessary part of life. Nobody is perfect - nobody is suggesting that they or their children are.

Agree with this. One of my children (4.5) is very shy around people especially adults. Of course I encourage her to say hello to adults and always mention it afterwards when we walk away about how it is polite to say hello. Often she will smile, sometimes not, sometimes look a bit awkward etc.

I’m not forcing her to say hi to an adult just because it might offend them when she is not deliberately being rude.

Being polite and considerate, saying please and thank you, and generally behaving nicely is not a sign of perfection. It's a sign of having been taught how to behave in a civilised way, in order to fit into society.

Some people let their children behave like feral brats. Do I judge those parents? Yes, I do.