To expect some basic manners from children?

[vickidoodah]

Twice in the last 24 hours kids have been unfriendly and not corrected by their parents.

1. looked after DC (8) class mate all day. Parent arrives to collect them and child is rude to parent then refuses to thank us or return to say goodbye after walking out without saying anything. Parent rolls eyes and says child is tired.
2. meet up with friend and their 2 children. I say hi to them and her DC 9 looks at me and otherwise ignores me. I raise eyebrow to friend who says they need to warm up and will be fine in about 20mins.

AIBU to think the parents are not helping their children by excusing this rude behaviour? All children NT.

I agree with @HalloweenYey . This exemplified interaction is no reflection on child or mum. If this is the worst OP can flag.

My kids are very far from perfect and absolutely have their moments but I encourage them to be polite, have always taught them manners and try to help them consider other people’s feelings.

I have an ex-friend whose kids have been allowed to be “shy” (rude) and they’re by now (tweens) simply unbearable company.

Good manners is really only being considerate of the other person, so that is the important thing to instil in children, not just a formulaic but meaningless politeness, though its much better than nothing.

If children grow up in an environment where good manners are the norm, then it also becomes the norm for the child to have good manners. When manners are used in everyday life, it is second nature and an automatic response to interactions within society. It's learned behaviour and adults should lead by example when it comes to manners, regardless of ND/SEN etc

This is actually how children start out and the end of the road for some ND children who can not grasp the deeper meaning. Ofcourse they need to learn more about respecting peoples boundaries, empathy etc but it would be sad not to teach children manners just because they do not yet understand the wider implications.

Teaching and reinforcing, in.children, very basic manners such as saying „”thank you” and „”please”, does not require this kind of mental gymnastics, even if you have to stand there next to them a remind what to say, which is fine.

I often work in local shops, and it's been really interesting to see how wary children and teens are of adults. As they have got to know me, they have come out of their shells, and we have good chats - most other staff don't speak to them. They have all been unfailingly polite (if a little daft on occasion).

I still think covid has a lot to do with things. I think children are a lot more cautious, having been deprived of contact with others for so long. Many will have missed out on the everyday modelling of superficial social interaction (including manners?) that toddlers and young children usually have, with adults other than their close family.

And as I mentioned above, many adults seem to have forgotten how to interact with children other than to tell them off.

I have said hello to many children, my own children's friends or my friends children, and many have not said hello back. I would never think they're rude.

What I do find awkward is when the parent is then spending 5 minutes trying to get their child to say hello. I'm not that important to them and hate to think they get told off for it. Get off kids backs so much.

Yes sure, but the OPs examples weren't the normal 'Fred, don't forget to say thank you for the chocolate bar'. They were an example of a child that was acting out of sorts and walked away before parent was able to remind them, and an example of a little kid not saying hello when spoken to, which as has been discussed at length, could be due to a number of reasons!

By all means, we should try and encourage politeness, remind our children to say please and thank you. But if we do this, and the child walks off we need another approach. Or if we know our child is shy etc.. and may struggle to say hi to an adult stranger, we need a longer term, more thoughtful solution.

Furthermore, if a child does not discipline their child in front of you, we shouldn't automatically assume they are a bad parent, but rather maybe more kindly, think they might just be handling the situation differently to how we would, and maybe they'll talk with the child later. Our way is not always the only or best way.

I don't judge a parent badly for these one off little errors of judgment/mistakes/instances of less than perfect politeness. My children both have a lovely group of friends with lovely parents. For the most part they are all well mannered and polite. But they aren't perfect. All of them, pretty much, have had occasions of not thanking me for a take home present after a party, or rushing out the door forgetting to thank me for having them, or chatting as they got down from the table without remembering to thank me for the meal etc... They are young and learning. The perfectly polite 8/9 year old that never slips up and never ever makes mistakes with manners is more of a concern I think.

Sorry typo .. 'if a parent does not discipline their child ....'

But if a child is refusing to speak at that particular moment, whatever their reason and despite the parent asking them to, how exactly do you expect the parent to drag the words out of them there and then - beat it out of them? No? What then?

Have some faith in the parents who know their child better than you do and know that a discussion once out of your earshot will serve far more purpose than them trying in vain to prise the words out in front of you.

For what it's worth, my own children were great at saying please and thank you from the age of 2, but I have been around long enough to realize that not all children are as cooperative or as easy to 'train'.

Threads like this remind me why so many mums get so overwhelmed by how they are perceived and come on here thinking they're absolute failures. This thread is all about the ' performance ' of parenting rather than what really matters behind the scenes. These examples are beyond ridiculous.
I feel sorry for the poor unsuspecting friend who will have no idea her child's unforgivable failing will have illicited a Mumsnet post.

Have you ever been to any real life hard arse housing estates where you're at risk of being called all sorts of c***s, ploughing through clouds of vape smoke and hoping to God the group of kids on the corner don't use you as target practice. Come on.

Couldn’t agree more. My kids are the same - I always say did you thank your coach (who is giving up his time voluntarily to coach you). They say yes and if they say they forgot I make them go back and say thank you.

As I said before excuses excuses excuses.

@Westofeasttoday I will guess you're in the 70plus age range

And another post of excuses excuses excuses.

Yes!!! I agree with all of this so much!! People want their children to always be so friendly and polite because it makes them as parents look good. Why does it matter if a random child hasn't said hello back!? Who cares!?

Like you say, there are some areas that will genuinely show you rude children and children with no manners. These children the OP is describing aren't the same.

Since when is it ok to judge children on the internet these days. I'm sure you'll say it's the parents that are being judged not the kids, but you can't control every move your child makes so yes it is judging the kids as well.

@Westofeasttoday the real reason you do that with the Coach is because you're seeking approval and validation as part of your performative parenting. I used to be guilty of this also. I cared too much how I appeared rather than what was truly important in raising a child. And yes, it is a nice gesture to thank a coach for all their effort - if that's really the motivation for that.
@Glitterbomb123 it's what goes on behind the scenes that is more important really in this case isn't it.

No you have it totally wrong. Let’s not overcomplicate this. The way I was raised is you thank people for what they have done for you [for free) by acknowledging that fact. Not seeking approval or validation at all and certainly not performative parenting. As I said my kids say thank you to their coach for giving up their time and spending it coaching the team. The same way I teach my kids to say thank you to someone for holding a door open, or thank you for saying I had dropped something etc. So not the real reason (however strange to say that because you don’t know me at all) but is it so hard to believe that people are motivated by politeness and not for validation? How very odd.

@Tittat50

or maybe she just wants the coach to feel valued and appreciated! It’s a great thing they’re doing and I’m sure they could be doing other stuff with their time!

Well that clears that up then. So basically if a child is doing something or meeting someone they didn't personally sign off on, they don't have to communicate. In other words, they get a free pass to ignore, sulk, be rude or whatever they feel like because they aren't getting their own way or they didn't choose that particular scenario. I'd say that's a pretty grounding for adulthood. Thanks for the tip.

As opposed to revoling around the snowflakes adults who's egos depend on children fawning. Not doing so is triggering for the fragile adult who responds in anger. Very unpleasant to witness but sadly it's a cultural thing.

It's a wonderful to be appreciated by a child but not all children are expressive, we all show these things in our own ways and we all have off days. The entitlement to gratitude is what stinks. Give because you enjoy giving then you won't be disappointed if you don't get anything in return.

Well done tho pp, like how you managed to get a sneaky attack on the disabled in there. It's almost like these neurodiverse people expect to be shown consideration. In my day manners were bloody well beaten in to us and very grateful I was to be purged of my lack of appropriate expression. I've got a few issues tbf but I always say please and thank you and when I do leave the house people comment on my pleasant manner, so there's that.

@LuckySantangelo35 yes absolutely. Coaches deserve acknowledgement 100 times over.

Maybe if the declaration wasn't on the back of rather bizarre ' excuses excuses ' replies to perfectly reasoned perspectives, ones intent would not be in question.

Exactly and thank you.

I hate that what was once just considered the parenting norm has now been labelled as performance parenting by those who don't get just trying to be polite and appreciate others.

No that’s fair. But there were a lot of excuses as to why children can’t be polite and I was responding to saying thank you to a coach.