To expect some basic manners from children?

[vickidoodah]

Twice in the last 24 hours kids have been unfriendly and not corrected by their parents.

1. looked after DC (8) class mate all day. Parent arrives to collect them and child is rude to parent then refuses to thank us or return to say goodbye after walking out without saying anything. Parent rolls eyes and says child is tired.
2. meet up with friend and their 2 children. I say hi to them and her DC 9 looks at me and otherwise ignores me. I raise eyebrow to friend who says they need to warm up and will be fine in about 20mins.

AIBU to think the parents are not helping their children by excusing this rude behaviour? All children NT.

It sounds like you’ve had a really frustrating experience, and it’s understandable to feel let down. When you go out of your way to help or be kind, it’s natural to hope for a bit of respect or gratitude in return.

It can feel disheartening when parents brush off or excuse behavior that feels disrespectful, especially when it would be such a good opportunity to teach children about basic manners. You’re definitely not alone in feeling that way.

I don't believe parroting is learning - it doesn't develop understanding.

As to if you don't teach a child when they're young they will never learn - I just don't believe that is true.

Children learn at different ages. Some find social skills hard, some find them easy. I think they will all get there in the end. Some will forget them when they are tired, stressed or upset.

I don't believe in punishing children for finding social communication difficult, or to please adults who have certain 'standards'. I find some people are more interested in how their children appear to others than in actually making sure their children understand why social communication is important.

So yes, to helping your children learn, but no to force/punishment/shame.

(There is swearing in this wee clip if you're around kids)

It's an odd thing..
Mine were expected to say thank you when given anything from their breakfast to a gift. If they didn't.. I gave them a second... Then prompted.
My nephew grew up not in the same way.
He's was a lovely child, but the lack of manners is glaring now as he becomes an adult.
It converts into not being polite to servers in restaurants.
Not rude, just not polite.

My son is ND, but I still insisted on manners and please and thank you.

He couldn't cope in school, I was constantly called in for some misdemeanor. Cubs, swimming lessons, college, all a disaster. But the one consistent comment from everyone was "he is so polite".

I am sure the fact that he was so polite when he was able to stay calm and regulated was appreciated at some level by the highly stressed adults around him and saw him through some very tricky episodes.

So being ND is not an excuse for general impoliteness.

Try harder then.

Neurodiversity is not an excuse for rudeness anyway. If a child (or adult with learning disabilities) is genuinely unable to say thank you or other pleasantries then their responsible adult prompts them say now we need to say thank you and goodbye then saying it for them if you know what I mean (dsd is severely disabled so we do need to do this for her but we talk it through with her each time)

Lazy parenting is rife as well as rude adults

I would have never accepted this kind of behaviour from any of my dc and two of them are neurodivergent! There is absolutely NO excuse for having no manners.

With the first example, that's how I'd handle it in the moment. Though I would of course thank you massively for looking after my child all day and probably bring you some wine or biscuits or something! When in the car I'd then speak to my DC about how they behaved and ask them why, what was wrong, and talk to them about my expectations for the future and why it's important. However, at age 8 my children were, genuinely, quite affected by tiredness and I gave them a little lee-way. Now at 10 and 12 they are v well behaved and polite especially the eldest who is at an age where he understands more. I would hope if my child was tired and 8 years old the other parent wouldn't judge and would assume I would talk to my child about their behaviour later, in private, when they r not tired.

Regarding example 2, I don't see much wrong to be honest. At 9 years old some children are very shy around adults and won't give much more than eye contact. My youngest was a little like this, would hug my leg and take a while to find his confidence, especially if he senses the adult talking was a little mean or likely to judge. He's 10 now and already much much better and growing in confidence and he would definitely acknowledge you. He still has friends though that remain a little shy even at this age. They all develop at different rates. In these situations I'd really hope my friends weren't judging me.

I think your examples really aren't that bad. I wonder if your friends know your feelings. Maybe let them know so they are aware of your standards and can explain to their children ' don't forget, it's vickidoodah we are meeting today, she's a bit judgey of you and mummy! so please try your best to be extra polite etc.... some mummy's are not very empathic.. I promise we will try and see less of her in the future...'

Thanks for this- I think you’re right in both circumstances. Nothing to be gained from a scene but I do think you can tell your child firmly to be polite without making it into a scene.
Good point about shy kids. I genuinely don’t think this is the case with this particular child but will definitely bear it in mind next time I start to get annoyed about this type of behaviour.

Yeah my 9 year old would probably be similar to the 9 year old who ignored you because she can get quite overwhelmed and honestly become very rude sometimes. She's very quiet and shy so that is a factor too but I genuinely try my best to make sure her manners are good and pull her up on it. I won't force her to make happy small talk with adults if she doesn't want to but she knows she needs to make an effort. I have other children who are really well mannered and polite but they enjoy talking with adults (and just people generally) a lot more than her!

I agree, it always surprised me when people complimented DDs manners although now I’ve had her friends over for play dates I understand it a bit more! I teach teenagers and every year there are a handful of students who will consistently thank me at the end of every lesson, I don’t need or expect it but it definitely says something about them, and they are usually the ones who go on to be the most successful when they move into work and adult life.

Should shy kids be let off the hook for manners then?

🤣

Hmm, I feel a bit conflicted on this. I want my kids to be polite, but also I know my youngest feels on the spot when first meeting people and is very reluctant to say hello, she does need to warm up! I talk to her about these behaviours but I’m not sure what would be gained by me standing insisting she must say hello to you. But I understand it’s rude - you’ve made me reflect a bit.

I think most of my friends know what she’s like and don’t take it personally, the only reason I would insist, if I was thinking someone would feel offended/ judge. And that’s my issue so I choose not to impose that too strongly on my child. Also I think certain formalities are maybe a bit old fashioned. But also don’t want people thinking I have a rude kid so will think about it a bit.

Good manners could be a dying thing, sadly. My husband, for example, is also called 'such a gentleman' because he has impeccable manners. So, to me, it's still a valuable asset to teach our children. It's not the children's fault; the parents and schools teach our children how to behave. Sadly, they cannot see how unlikable it makes their children appear.

Wow. What an unbelievable attitude you have.

It sounds like you're part of this problem.

Manners cost nothing but some seem to forget that.

I think this is a really important differentiation. Arguably (not my view but arguably), neither child was rude, they just weren’t polite. Maybe I need to reset my expectations!

First instance, quite rude given they presumably had been speaking while they were in the home so weren't massively shy.

Second, could be a very shy child. Mine would probably say hi to someone they didn't know with prompting, but may not have made eye contact.

First instance, quite rude given they presumably had been speaking while they were in the home so weren't massively shy.

Second, could be a very shy child. Mine would probably say hi to someone they didn't know with prompting, but may not have made eye contact.

It is possible the child would have preferred to be at home and not being offloaded to someone else and deeply resented it.

I'm sure most kids would prefer to be at home on the iPad with a supersize bag of Haribo. So what? It has no relevance to manners whatsoever.

I am quite surprised by this thread.

The children are very young and in the first example, also probably really tired.

I would hope that my friends would be more forgiving and assume that I will deal with the behaviour in private later.

The behaviours are quite low key and I'm sure there are very few 8 year olds who are always perfectly behaved when tired. I'm also sure there are many 9 year olds who for a variety of reasons may not always think to acknowledge someone (tiredness, shyness, daydreaming, anxiety).

Most parents are trying their best and attempting to raise their children to be polite. Not every parenting discussion and discipline method needs to happen in full view of other parents. I often talk to my children later about their behaviour and set expectations for future interactions. I don't always want to pull them up in front of others. Sometimes I have, but it's not up to other parents how I teach my child manners.

I am surprised people are not a little less judgey. It would be great if parents could encourage each other more and judge less.

They can still have manners but find to harder to speak up in certain situations. One of mine always says please, thank you etc etc at home and with familiar people. But with a stranger/unfamiliar adult she finds it difficult and often whispers it or sometimes doesn’t speak to them at all. I’m not going to force her or make a big scene to embarrass her and I know she will get there in time as she’s already getting a bit more confident as she gets older. (My other child always says it at home and to strangers/anyone). It’s not (always) about them deliberately being rude or having no manners.

Exactly.