To expect some basic manners from children?

[vickidoodah]

Twice in the last 24 hours kids have been unfriendly and not corrected by their parents.

1. looked after DC (8) class mate all day. Parent arrives to collect them and child is rude to parent then refuses to thank us or return to say goodbye after walking out without saying anything. Parent rolls eyes and says child is tired.
2. meet up with friend and their 2 children. I say hi to them and her DC 9 looks at me and otherwise ignores me. I raise eyebrow to friend who says they need to warm up and will be fine in about 20mins.

AIBU to think the parents are not helping their children by excusing this rude behaviour? All children NT.

the parents and schools teach our children how to behave.

Erm no, the parents need to teach our children how to behave; and support the teachers when they expect good behaviour.

What I do love are all the excuses as to why children can’t be polite. No, manners are manners and should be present no matter how tired, grumpy, shy, whatever the child is feeling.

Wow you can tell on this thread who has rude kids. Instead of spending so much time making excuses for your kids and your parenting maybe spend it on teaching your kids please, thankyou and to respond when spoken to. Iv done many things wrong in parenting but manners isn't one of them. A big part of raising kids is for them to be independent and cope in society as they get older. Learning basic social and communication skills is a big part of that.

Why don’t you tell us what you have done wrong in parenting then as you say and maybe we can tell you to stop making excuses for those mistakes and tell you how you can teach your children properly instead?
Yes, some children are brought up with no manners. But I’m assuming you think I am one of those parents who are lazy and not teaching my 4 year old properly because she has impeccable manners at home but is very ‘shy’ and finds it hard to speak to adults in public so you might not hear it then and judge me?

.... and this folks , is why kids behave as they do. Until parents stop making up excuses for every conceivable circumstance and instead put the work in to teach manners - it will just get worse.

And don't even get started on the SEND/ND nonsense. My DS was non-verbal until 7 /ASD special school - could still put his hands together and say thank you 🙏 until he learned to speak .

Manners and ND are not mutually exclusive. Although I believe many parents use it as an excuse because they can't be arsed to put boundaries in place if it's going to take any effort .

Polite society runs on people parroting pleasantries. It is about showing respect to the other person, not about how you feel. Honestly, does anyone really feel overwhelmed with gratitude when the sales assistant gives you 20p change? No, but you say thank you because it represents acknowledgment that someone gave you something.

This attitude that manners need to emanate from a place of genuine, authentic experience of the emotion misses the point. It's not about you, it's about the other person. I've 3 kids of my own and have been an early years teacher for 2 decades and im consistent with my approach.If someone gives you something, you say thank you. If you're asking for something, you say please. Let's stop underestimating children's ability to conform to these conventions which will make them more likable and which shows respect to others.

My speech delayed 2 year old says please and thank you at the right time and I don't really care how much she embodies the emotions when she says the words. People notice when children, young people and adults use nice manners and it stands them in good stead in life.

Not at all.

Both of my children are very well behaved and well mannered. (The youngest has always been a little shy and reserved on first meeting or when places are busy and overwhelming, or if someone appears particularly intimidating, but with patience he is beginning to flourish. His teachers describe him as a role model for other children and a pleasure to have in the class. So he's not rude or impolite).

However, I am also and have always been, forgiving and understanding of tiredness, shyness and all the other things which impact small children. Children have to learn behaviours and how to regulate their emotions and how to interact. It takes time and they are all on a different time line.

When I was growing up, I lived in fear of my mother. I was exceptionally well behaved because if I was not to be, the consequences would have been horrendous. I don't think that's helpful. My own feelings and emotions were never considered. In her opinion children should be seen and not heard. Forgetting a thank you or to shake hands with someone on first meeting, was a huge no no and seen as a bad reflection on her. Really, her view was that my behaviour was always a reflection of her. She wanted to be seen as having wonderful, happy, polite, well adjusted, perfect children because she thought it made her look superior and perfect. Much like, perhaps, some on this thread.

With my own children, I try my best to instill manners but I also try to understand what they might be experiencing and why they might be acting in certain ways on a given day. I also make a judgement call about how and when I discuss behaviour with them, and don't always do this in front of others parents for good reasons.

I love taking my children to visit people who I believe to be my friends and who I believe won't judge me, because if I'm relaxed and my children are relaxed, we will all have good time. I hate visiting people or seeing people who judge. It puts me on edge and I worry.

I have noticed that a lot of those who judge are in fact quite insecure themselves or think themselves superior in some way or somehow believe that their perfect children will make them seem admirable. It's a shame they can't relax and learn to be more supportive of fellow mums and friends.

I'm not making excuses I admit to all my mistakes iv made. I wouldn't judge you if you was reminding your child in public to say please and thankyou. But if you didn't pull your child up on this then yes I would judge you.

I was the painfully shy child who hated being expected to talk to random adults. My youngest is similar, I don’t force him, I know he will gain confidence in his own time just as I did.

I don’t find either of the examples that bad. As others have said I would have thanked you myself and had a word with dc on the way home. it is the adult you have helped out not the child!

I do agree that there are some chidkren being dragged up with no guidance on how to behave but I just don’t feel like these two examples are particularly good ones.

So for it to be ok with you, I have to pull my child up on it in front of you so you hear? But it wouldn’t be ok if I remind my child and talk to her about it out of your ear shot (which is what I do). Stop judging parents please when you have no idea how they parent or what is said when you’re not there. Oh and I do say let’s say thank you etc when there if she hasn’t but most of the time that doesn’t mean she says thank you still to a stranger and it’s more worthwhile having a chat with her later in private.

But I don't think tiredness is an excuse for not using manners and I don't think parents should be making excuses for their children. If your child is at one of your friends houses and they give them a snack or a drink and your child doesn't automatically say thankyou it's your job as a parent to say Billy say thankyou to carly for the cookie

Thanks for your view. I’m starting to think I probably am a bit quick to judge! I do think this kind of low key non-engagement, impolite behaviour should be addressed but accept many parents might prefer to deal with it in private.

Thanks for your view. I’m starting to think I probably am a bit quick to judge! I do think this kind of low key non-engagement, impolite behaviour should be addressed but accept many parents might prefer to deal with it in private.

But it should be automatic everytime. Your kid should be saying please and thankyou and if they don't you should be saying Billy say thankyou as you've just been giving this. Why do you need to do that in private after the fact. It's not about telling them of its about reminding them and prompting them everytime until it becomes second nature

I do and have been doing so for 4 years. She says it all to people she knows but still doesn’t mean she will say thank you to a stranger (yet). I’m sure she will in time as I’ve said she is gaining confidence but to you, she’s rude.

KIds have never been as rude as presently, but blame no discipline and spoiling them, simpering parents and seeing to their every whim.

Not allowed to tell children off now or ask them to say 'hello' to people they know because it's all 'their choice' and 'their mind' crap and it up to them what they want to do 🙄

Absolutely. And the second nature part is key. Once it's automatic (or parroted, as some might say) it takes up next to no cognitive space for the child and is said reflexively, without having them having to think about it. Nice manners is a gift that you give a child, not some kind of ball and chain to burden them with.

I totally agree my dd is nd and struggles but still has to get on in the world and manners don’t cost anything

If they are very shy and don’t say it loud enough for a stranger to hear etc it doesn’t mean they don’t know it, haven’t been taught it, or don’t say it at home or with familiar people.

8 and 9 are not very young kids. Come on. Do some posters think a child wakes up at 16/18/20 and then decides spontaneously to start displaying basic manners? They don’t. They model what they see.

If you don’t teach them this stuff and reinforce it daily you’re making life harder for them as other people will find them rude and unpleasant to be around. They’ll be lacking a key skill in getting along in life. It’s up to you but the poor excuses some people are using won’t hold much water out in the world.

@Ohfuckrucksack

for goodness sake, it’s a ‘thank you’!! Uttering two little words. If we start to think that’s beyond kids in the situations Op describes then future society is really not going to be very pleasant!

Yes of course. But if Billy then doesn't say thank you and walks off to the car, then I won't hall him back in front of the other parent and tell him off. Instead, I'd want to know what's wrong, why is he feeling grumpy like this and not doing what has been asked. I'd worry what might have happened on the play date. In this case I'd probably speak with Billy later about his behaviour, find out the cause (tiredness, plus maybe a few other things in the mix like a fall out with a friend etc..) and we could think together about better ways of handling it all and I could re-explain my expectations for his behaviour and we can think about how he can demonstrate that behaviour better next time.

If I don't make an effort to talk to Billy and understand what happened and just tell him off in front of the other parent to prove I value manners (and stop them judging me), then he won't learn. I might look good to the other parent (not my priority), but Billy won't learn much. Ok, he might learn to say these things in front of me to avoid future tellings off and humiliation, but he won't learn that his mother picked up that he wasn't feeling himself, that she wanted to hear his side of the story, that she took time to understand and explain to him why it's important to say thank you etc.., that she didn't want to humiliate him or make him feel worse in front of someone else. He won't learn why manners are important, how they make other people feel etc..

To me, childhood is a time for learning. You can fear a child or parrot fashion a child into being very well mannered by age 4 (that was me). Or, you can help and support them and it may take them a little longer to be well mannered on every occasion, perhaps not achieving a 100% hit rate on every interaction until the teen years, but they will learn more in depth about the 'why's' and will feel heard and supported by their parents. Most children raised in this latter way are generally well mannered most of the time because they are being raised in a caring way that teaches manners, but they might forget or make mistakes along the way, particularly if they are not punished for having normal childhood emotions and responses such as frustration, tiredness, anger, shyness etc..

That ship has sailed, I'm afraid.
Nowadays they aren't even taught to greet their neighbours, and these aren't small kids.
My husband doesn't mind to start talking to a next door teenage boy, who responds politely, however, I have been brought up in a different way and sure as hell I wouldn't say Hello to a teen first, as a 45 yo woman.