To think the term 'childfree' is as bad as 'childless'

[JemimaWithTheStripeyTights]

I totally understand why somebody would prefer not to describe themselves as 'childless'. The -less has connotations of something missing, of being somehow inferior or lacking when compared with people with children. It makes 'having children' the default, and 'not having children' abnormal. I get it.

But something about 'childfree' really grates with me. The -free seems to imply liberation from the idea of children, as if that's some obligation or burden, or as if they're something to be escaped from at all costs. Basically, I think it sounds as much like a smug value judgement as 'childless' is a thoughtless one.

Not sure what the alternative would be, but how about 'nonparent'? It needs to be a word that's totally neutral about whether having kids is a good or bad thing.

I think childless sounds a bit crap. Like something is missing. Fingerless gloves, are gloves missing their fingers. You have to point out that the gloves default from the "norm" of just gloves.

I think childfree is fine, until you get the small minority who want to make such a point about how awful the idea of having children is. Like standing in front of ten dog owners, announcing how dogs are foul, and portraying superiority at being "dogfree.". It naturally gets people's backs up. It's sneering at their life, in a "ewwww who would ever want that thing that you have" way, then doing this faux naive "I have no idea why that would offend anyone.". Granted that's only a few people that behave like that... But alas, they tend to be the constant loud voices on the subject, and they unfortunately do the majority a disservice.

Non parent, again, no. That's like the gloves thing, having to define yourself as being different to the default.

Thinking on it.... Generally the default in life is you acknowledge something that applies to you, but you don't list all the things that don't, because that list would run in to the thousands. If I asked Polly to tell me about herself, she might say "I'm a swimmer, I have a cat, I have a degree in Spanish.". But not "I don't play bowls, I don't have a budgie and I don't have a maths degree."

Why not simply, "I don't have children?"

So which other category of human would YOU be apply it? I wouldn't even apply it to an animal personally - for example I think dogs seem like an awful lot of hard work, but I'd never described myself as 'dog free'.

If you say I don’t have children then people start telling you to just adopt or giving you ‘advice’ on conceiving so you have to then explain you don’t want children and they start questioning why. If you say childfree it’s just easier and skips over the unnecessary bits of the conversation which is why a lot of people use it.

Why not simply, "I don't have children?"

I talked about that upthread, @LePetitMaman. IRL I would use ‘I don’t have children’ because I can say it with a big smile that makes it clear it’s a good thing.

Online, it would be much harder to tell whether I didn’t have them through choice or because I couldn’t. So childfree & childless are easy shorthands.

There is a board on Mumsnet called Mners without children. The whole childless or childfree conversation has been thoroughly talked through over there!

The general consensus being, childfree is people who made a choice not to have children, childless is people who wanted children but have had fertility issues or circumstances that have resulted in no children.

I'm childless.

You would if default was to have a dog and not having dog would be met with questions...

This is so key.

Everyone is different, and that's ok

It's when the parents start pushing how life isn't complete without a child nonsense, which is then met with, children are awful you couldn't pay me to have one

Then everyone gets offended. Because some people (in both camps) just can't accept that their life choice isn't superior and have to ram it down anyone's throat who doesn't agree, to self validate.

If only more people could just realise that most of us don't give a shit whether you've got ten kids or none, we're all too busy worrying about our lives, families, jobs, friends, marriage, health, our mortgage, cost of living, a partridge in a pear tree...

You don't have to use any of these terms, though. You can just say "I don't have children"

I am absolutely childfree. It is - for me - liberating to know I don’t have to conform to the societal norm.

And I don’t want to as I DO view children as a burden and not something I would ever want in my life.

I use this phrase specifically because I don’t want people to think I want children but am unable to have them.

Childfree describes me perfectly. I don’t have children because I never wanted them. My situation is very different from someone who desperately wants children but cannot have them.

Framing that as „hateful“ is frankly ridiculous and goady.

"oh why not? Have you tried IVF?"

I always say my house is a man-free zone. Awaiting being told I’m a raging misandrist in 3, 2, 1…

Several people have said that, if you read back a few posts.

”Have you considered adopting?”

It's deeply problematic when we start ascribing worth and value only to those who are wanted. This kind of thinking has led humanity down some very dark paths. It also has terrible emotional repurcussions for the many children who are in care, with no prospect of adoption or reuniting with their parents.

It's fine to not want to have children. It's not fine to describe children, as a demographic, in a negative way because they are not wanted. Children are valuable and good whether or not they are wanted, because they're human beings.

Oh god. That one gives me the absolute rage.

‘My cousin tried for 11 years to have a child, she had 5 rounds of ivf and nothing worked then she went on holiday to Spain had three cocktails and got pregnant with twins! Now she has 12 kids, why don’t you try it’.

Yep. Or have you thought about adoption (yes, we were turned down) or surrogacy (I believe this is child trafficking) or fostering (this is nothing like being a parent) or, or, or, or.... Like you've never fucking thought about it for more than a second.

Wankers.

I’m 62 and no kids.
I couldn’t care less if I am called childless or child free.
you clearly haven’t got enough to worry about

I don't have a problem with child free at all. However, if you look hard enough, you can find fault/offense/take issue with just about any phrase I guess.

It's not describing them in a negative way to say you haven't chosen to have them. It's normal, it's fine and it's a choice. It might not be a choice you have made but it doesn't make it wrong and it isn't saying children aren't valuable to someone else.

Bringing adoption etc into it is below the belt. Do you honestly think we don't hear it all the goddamn time.

I don’t think it’s up to us what labels people give themselves.
Some people who don’t have children but want them will call themselves “childless” and people who don’t have them and don’t want them will call themselves “child free”. Those people get to chose their own labels, it’s nothing to do with you or your feelings.

There is no other category of human I am expected to have by default. There is no other type of human that people consistently ask me if I have them. Nobody says, 'Oh, you don't have Asians? Is that because you can't have them?'

It's the same with dogs. Nobody presumes I physically can't have a dog if I say I don't have a dog.

Maybe if people stopped being so interested in whether or not other people have children and why they don't if they don't, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Maybe if we all just made it a bit easier for women to just say 'no' in answer to the ubiquitous question, without insisting on knowing the ins and outs of a duck's arse about why, nobody would have felt moved to create different terms.

I don't want to talk about not having children. It's none of anybody else's bloody business why I don't have them.

If you don't like the possible answer, don't ask the question in the first place. Problem solved.

Humans are not intrinsically valuable - look at the way we have collectively damaged, irreparably, our planet! We have less value than the tiniest insect in the universe because we destroy, we do not create.

Children are valuable and good whether or not they are wanted,

When I say I am childfree I mean that I am free of my own children, not of anyone else’s that already exist. My hypothetical children are not valuable or good to me - that is why I haven’t brought them into being.

Childfree people aren’t talking negatively about existing children, and us having a term that reflects our choice is not going to lead us into a dystopian hellscape where children no longer have value to anyone including their own parents.

Many childfree people work with or are very close to children in their lives. We don’t hate kids because we don’t want our own.

Am I disparaging men by not wanting any kind of romantic relationship with one? Is being a lesbian a route into a dark future where men are no longer valued by anyone because I personally do not want one in my life? This is how silly your argument sounds to me.