Reaching out 🥲

[LoveAlways1]

Hi fellow mums.

This is hard to type. I don’t usually reach out, I have spent my life so far supporting myself and others. I’m usually the one people reach out to. However, I’m going to give this a go, so please be kind.

I have a 16 year old son. We are a small family, just me, his dad and I. We don’t have any family around to help and, despite him having many Godparents, none of them have made any effort at all to be in his life.

He is a clever, talented boy, and isn’t depressed. However, he only brushes his teeth occasionally (about once a week), rarely washes and refuses to cut his hair. It’s very long. I wouldn’t mind this if he looked after it. But he doesn’t.

We (all three of us) have always had a loving, harmonious, supportive relationship, in a peaceful environment (i.e. no trauma, arguments etc).

We love him and care about him very much and we have talked with him about the importance of looking after himself (what will happen if he doesn’t, what will happen if he does etc) many many times but to no avail.
We have tried everything (taking away privileges, rewards etc).

Nothing is working.

His teeth are yellow, his hair is dirty and usually unbrushed, he will probably start smelling soon (he has a bag full of everything I could think of that he might need - electric razor, electric toothbrush, vitamins, face cleanser, shower gel, flannel, sponge comb, brush etc). And we always keep communication open. We are there for him always.

He rarely goes outside and I’m certain he is going to be deficient in vitamin D and other vitamins and nutrients as he doesn’t eat fruits or vegetables. He won’t let us weigh him either. “No” is his favourite word.

When I talk with my partner (his dad) about it he says he has tried talking to him many times but isn’t going to worry about it now as it’s his choice. I get that, but try as I might, I just can’t stop worrying about it! we have one main job - to keep him healthy. I feel like we are failing and I just don’t know what to do.

Please can anyone offer some advice that they have found to have worked?

Thank you x

How do you suggest we do that?

It sounds like a really tough situation but it also sounds like homeschooling hasn't actually worked at all. He may be doing fine academically but he doesn't seem fine from an emotional/social perspective. Can you get him back into school or college for his A-levels?

I think you’re right to be concerned OP. He’s cocooned himself in his own little world. Since he’s 16 what are his plans for the future? Further education? Work? Stay in his room?

Ok. I appreciate you taking the time to reply, but I feel I’m having to repeat myself here. A lot. I thought by reaching out I’d receive kind caring support, instead I feel like I’m being judged and a bit attacked actually. Which is a shame because as I said in my original post, I’ve never reached out before. I guess I was right not to. Thanks. I think.

Hi OP. Yes! To me this is strongly saying ASD. You may want to research this. Within my family - nail cutting, tooth brushing, hair brushing, showering and water generally were all avoided. It was only when we got a diagnosis I realised all this sensory stuff goes together and is a feature of being ASD.
With my teenager I made teeth non negotiable. They must clean their teeth. You can buy less strong tasting tooth paste or blue toothpaste is usually a bit weaker than the white ones. I would take away screens/phones until the brushing happened. It can start off as 30sec or what ever your teen can cope with. Then give back the confiscated item. They need to rush their teeth or later they will have false ones. Good Luck with this. You sound like really caring parents.

@LoveAlways1 I have 4 children in or past that age bracket. For one, I wouldn't just remove any of them from the mainstream schooling system and if I did and they then "point blank refused" to socialise with anyone in real life and only with whatever randoms online they'd formed relationships with that I had no insight into whatsoever then they'd be going back to school.

You are aware that you're the adult in this situation, aren't you?

I wonder if there was more to the bullying than you know. I imagine you will say he’ll just refuse to discuss it?

I think if he refuses every request, you have to start enforcing what you need. If he won’t show you his online presence, remove his access to the internet. If he won’t comply with basic hygiene or behaviour relevant to health, you might need to empty the house of anything he’d eat in place of vegetables. If there’s no neurodiversity I think he has to lose access to choice because he isn’t making good choices. So no choice of food- just what you make. No access to internet/devices. He can choose the colour of his toothbrush, or between broccoli and cabbage. That sort of thing.

It isn’t being cruel, we have to support children to make choices that benefit them, and you have said a number of things that make it seem that your boy is at real risk of harm from different directions.

Thank you Swanbeauty. Finally, a kind reply.

I've learnt a lot about Autism. I am a very aware person and am constantly learning. Especially when it comes to my son. My nephew is Autistic and I have known many Autistic children in my life. However, he doesn’t show signs of Autism. I’m not an expert, and after your message I am thinking how I’d like to have him assessed. But HOW when I already know he will say no?

A very tough situation. He sounds depressed.

Would he consider a change of scenery for a week or a few days? Do the three of you do much together outside the house?

My brother was very aggressive around the same age and didn't wash etc... my parents took him away walking for a few days which was painful at first but he slowly changed. They just wanted to take him somewhere where he couldn't just run away when they wanted to talk and say they were worried. He didn't speak much on the trip but did take lots of board and things improved a lot!

I'd be seeking input from an IT expect so you can monitor his online use as he is potentially a target for online grooming!

…he has been homeschooled since he was 11 years old. He isn’t learning right now. Funnily enough (we were surprised) he is open to going through a college perspectus with us

I have been tempted many times to homeschool my asd teen, she's like this also. HOWEVER you know your son better then any of us so if you think he is not autistic there has to be something going on with him as by nature if nt at that age he should be wanting to mix. What are his passions ?

I think a number of replies have cross-posted, so sorry that you feel you’re repeating yourself. Also I don’t think anyone is attacking you but you’re concerned (rightly) and when people suggest things you just say that your son will refuse. So it’s difficult to think of how to help you.

AIBU is full of people who will make judgey and hostile comments (because it’s about judgement I suppose)

Might not be the right place for what for what you’re looking for. Are there other boards you could try? The parenting board has a teenager section by the looks of things.

Look up PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance). It is not recognised by all LAs, but I have known a number of young people who seem to be somewhat like your son with respect to behaviours and are demand-avoidant.

PDA Society – Pathological Demand Avoidance

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Maybe reach out to social services. They can help you get him into counselling and get to the bottom of this behaviour.

Just remember all you can do is your best. It sounds like you've tried everything you can think of. Is there another school/college near by that you could enroll him in? It may help bring him out of his shell.

Thank you for your empathy, it is appreciated.

He is actually really in tune with his emotions and communicates well with us (which I know isn’t enough, but he is capable and able to express himself well). He is also brilliant on the phone! he does choose to talk in an American accent on the phone though. Not sure why but I don’t think that’s a problem…?

Hypermedi - I write like a bot?! thank you for your kindness. Much appreciated 🙄

Sorry to hear things are tough OP, it’s hard when they reach an age where you can’t force them to do basic things. As ever with MN there will unfortunately be unhelpful and judgey replies, I’m sure these comments come from perfect parents with perfect children!

He sounds a lot like my younger brother (now 22) he left for homeschooling as the same age as your son (he was desperately unhappy at school), and also went through a similar phase of poor hygiene. To this day he’s very selective about socialising and doesn’t live like a typical 22 year old lad. He gets a lot from his online friends, so please don’t worry about that with your son. He’s interacting, it may not be in the traditional sense but he’s got friends that he’s engaging with which is good.

I just think some people aren’t made for the typical way of life, school/job/nightlife/uni and that’s fine as long as they’re happy. Unfortunately I don’t have any practical advice about the hygiene, hopefully it’ll click for him one day and he’ll look after himself.

something that has really helped my brother is having a dog, would your son be interested in own a pet of some kind? It can really help in terms of their sense of purpose

As I say I don’t have a huge amount of advice, I just wanted to offer some reassurance at a clearly worrying time

I was going to mention this. My son is diagnosed ASD with a PDA profile. He is far from typically autistic. The presentation with PDA is completely different. My son has hair down to almost his bum, very rarely brushes his teeth but requires me to body double him when he does and will shower once a week, on a Sunday. If he doesn’t do it one Sunday, he won’t even try again until the following Sunday. He gives good eye contact, he’s very eloquent and has a broad vocabulary and is generally quite social in the right situation. It’s worth a read up.

We have tried that. Many many many times. It doesn’t work.

What about the inattentive form of ADHD? I was very quiet as a teenager and struggled with hair washing/brushing etc. I still struggle a bit although I'm fine if I'm going somewhere but not with routine. It's to do with transitions I think and executive dysfuntion.

I think I'd have a crackdown on screens. Autistic or not, teeth do have to be brushed and he needs to wash and show basic respect. Those are non negotiable. Everything else I'll compromise on.

He obviously wants to talk to his friends. Well that wouldn't be happening until he'd brushed his teeth, had a wash and at least attempted some school work. Sad and isolated? Too bad. He knows what he has to do to get his social life back. Time for some tough love.

Start small. Teeth are the most important thing here. You can't get them back once they've rotted. Take the phone, take the gaming setup. If you can't do this, take the power cable and chargers. The attitude lasts only as long as the battery.

He brushes his teeth and he gets them back. Ideally twice a day but I'd settle for once.

Don't give in to tantrums. Wait him out.

I'd aim for brushing teeth every day. Bath or shower at least every other day and one school task a day. Whether that be a worksheet or whatever its up to you. But ease in slowly. Start with teeth, progress to hygiene. He has to be capable of functioning in society so basics first. Then tackle education.

So he hasn't associated with anyone in real life apart from his parents for five years?!

It sounds very tough and you sound very stuck with it.

I'm a former CAMHS ed psych and family therapist. I would encourage reaching out for professional support. Even if your son doesn't want to engage, there can be value in you engaging as parents with family therapy, because the adults must change for the child to change.

I'm wondering if he has got into hikkikomori culture online. Although this was originally a Japanese cultural phenomenon, we were seeing more and more Western young people (some ND, some not) adopting this lifestyle, particularly following lockdown. Bullying and social rejection can be a common trigger for social withdrawal. There is a strong overlap with autism because autistic kids are often bullied and ostracised for being different and may be neurobiologically more vulnerable to social anxiety and health anxiety, which can develop into agoraphobia. But it is not always autistic young men who get into this. There's also a correlation with young men who have developed gaming addictions, and nothing apart from the dopamine hits from gaming will motivate them - all other tasks of living become somewhat meaningless and boring to someone addicted to an activity or substance.

The below may be of interest.

theconversation.com/hikikomori-understanding-the-people-who-choose-to-live-in-extreme-isolation-148482