Conservatives and Labour - is there really any difference for middle class working families

[Sweetcup]

Please convince me otherwise as I'm feeling utterly depressed.

I really can't see what is on offer to middle class families from either party - it appears to be exactly the same. High taxes, no guarantee of decent state education or access to medical care, horrible driving on roads, criminals out of prison early picked up in luxury cars. Our salaries are worth less than they were 7 years ago.

In principle I don't mind paying high taxes but it really doesn't seem to be a guarantee of anything. Our local state secondary is dreadful as a few (non-working) families seem able to disrupt the education of the rest. As a tax payer I don't feel either the Conservatives or Labour have ever spoken to me directly about what my money is doing and what they are guaranteeing for it.

We cut right back (no Netflix, eating our, no takeout) to put money into our pensions and now I just feel like that means we will have done it to pay for other people's state funded retirements.

What labour are going to do will be clearer after the budget. But yes usually lesser of evils, not one is so much better than the other for anyone really. Both parties are pretty central politically.

You do realise that Labour haven't even produced a budget as yet? It's way too early to judge.

Your wages being with less than 7 years ago, those 7 years were under the Tories.

The nhs, roads, and education which you complain about have all been neglected under the Tories, maybe Labour will fix them, maybe not, but at least give them a chance before judging them.

This "they are all the same" narrative is obviously incorrect

@randomchap I do realise that. It's clear taxes will go up again. Labour haven't said anything during the campaign or after which makes me think they will improve things for my family or community. That is what I find depressing.

Why obviously incorrect? I've lived through many changes of Government and for all the posturing fundamentally things don't change much for most people. And it's probably a good thing that both the left and right are still fairly central politically, extreme left wing or right wing governments start to be dangerous to democracy.

I've gotten our of bed every morning for 35 years and gone to work.

I pay everything, I claim nothing.

All I ever get told is stop moaning and pay more.

@Hateam this is exactly how I feel. We claim nothing - paid for our child's autism assessment ourselves, don't go to the doctors unless we really need to, pay a fortune to commute and on childcare. I feel there is very little respect for tax payers.

I agree, but think that was obvious from their manifestos. Both parties are central leaning and fiscally very similar. The difference to me was from a moral and characteristic standpoint.

I'm sure that some taxes will go up but I doubt that income tax or employee national insurance contributions will go up.

Possibly they will make changes to CGT and inheritance tax, but no-one will know for certain until after the budget. If you are affected by rises in these two taxes, you are probably in the wealthier demographic and any changes are unlikely to mean that you will need to choose between heating and eating.

Labour haven't said anything during the campaign or after which makes me think they will improve things for my family or community. That is what I find depressing.

But you're not a child, it's not for politicians to just tell you what they will do for you, like a sort of birthday present from your gran. You need to inform yourself about how you think the world works and what will improve society in the round, then support the things that lead to that.

For example- I think, from reading about the big challenges in the world (climate, climate related migration, resource scarcity, etc) that it isn't possible for all of us to go on having a calm untroubled life where our living standards just go up and up. I think about what's wrong in our communities, and one thing coming to mind is huge income inequality, lack of good public services like health and education and housing so loads of people are really poor, and then this makes them likely to be less cohesive and do less for others. So if Labour (or whoever) put my taxes up but increase NHS and education provision that's still an investment in my community because it addresses the wider reasons for why things are wrong.

Similarly I don't think "stop migration!!" is a good long term solution so I see it as an investment in my community to integrate migrants and get them generating useful social and economic benefits.

I can see that we need to invest in green energy so I would support parties with a good plan for this, even if it meant my taxes going up, as it stops my living standars dropping like a stone in, say, 20 years.

What is your analysis of what causes the bigger problems in the world and what policies work best to get at the root causes of them?

Because if you're just thinking "Who gives me the nicest most comfy standard of living" then no, there's no difference between parties as they are both trying their best to keep you voting for them by giving you little presents.

Try and take your place as an informed citizen and see the economy and the world at large with a more accurate perspective.

Everything you are complaining about are as a result of Tory economic policy, most notably Austerity.

The taxes rumored to increase/change are IHT, CGT and business NI.... which wont have any immediate affect on the vast majority of people.

Council tax will carry on increasing as it has done by a near 5% per year, your income and NI taxes will stay the same.

The tax increases are as a result of Hunt/Sunak cutting NI by over 20 billion.... that was a tax cut funded by cuts in public services... & done to stuff up Labour, which it certainly has done, as they are getting the blame for its funding....

So what do you want? even more cuts in services or targeted tax rises?

don't go to the doctors unless we really need to

Why else would you go?!

pay a fortune to commute and on childcare

Both your choices?

The state this country is in today can be attributed to 14 years of Tory rule. Hopefully things will improve. However, I am not sure we can expect things to necessarily improve at the individual level: rather what we are hoping for is an improved NHS, investment in the services people need including education.

As for 'respect for thr taxpayer', what do you want, exactly?

Those of you saying you claim nothing are in cloud cuckoo land. You benefit from roads, infrastructure, trade deals, the National Grid, ambulances and fire engines - ok they might not have you in them going to hospital but do you really want a world where buildings randomly just burn down or people just die in the road or car accidents aren't cleared up?

You benefit from regulation on food and medicine production. From rules around health and safety so your phone doesn't electrocute your stupid ears.

Finally you benefit from policing so people aren't constantly smashing up your house.

Again, just grow up and understand the world.

I’m sitting in Wales laughing at the idea that Labour will fix healthcare or education.

Well taxes are about to go up so there's that

Never use the NHS?

100% agree.

Sone people - I would argue the richer amongst us are destined to be net contributors over their lives

For which you would think they would be proud of themselves and their achievements, proud to help support those less fortunate, proud to help build a better place for us all to live - because life is better if you live in a happy healthy society rather than the wild way of every woman for herself and sod anyone else

I seriously doubt only the kids of the non workers are the only ones disrupting your kids.

I'm also here in Wales enjoying my free prescriptions but on a more serious note why do a certain demographic of people (right leaning reform/tory voters, mainly english incomers) think Wales are failing because if they where people would vote them out and they haven't for as long as the Senedd has been around, so for the most part Labour are doing a good job here in Wales what does need looking at is the Barnett formula, my country having had its resources stolen by the English for centuries should be redressed in the formula and not kept at the pittance level it is

Excellent post

We get fuck all compared to the Welsh and the Scots yet you always complain you don't get enough.

Just because your government chooses to give you nothing doesn't mean we should have less

Why do you presume that poster wasn't Welsh? Many Welsh don't like Labour. Don't presume they are English.

This response, 100%.

I didn't, that's why I included the word mainly