To stop my 83 year old parents driving 200 miles on Christmas Eve

[BeGladHedgehog]

DH and I live 200 miles away from my parents. Have done for years. Parents now 83 years old. DM no longer drives due to health issues but DF continues to. DH and I are unable to travel anywhere this Christmas (long story). I have invited my parents to ours for Christmas but I have asked them to please take the train rather than drive. DF insists that he will drive and refuses to take the train. DF is insisting that he will drive himself and DM down on Christmas Eve, spend Christmas Day with us and drive back on Boxing Day. I think this is unnecessarily risky at age 83, particularly when the roads are busy and they will no doubt be tired. I’ve expressed my concern and said that I’m very sorry but I can’t let them do that and I can only agree to the arrangement if they agree to take a train. My parents think I’m being ridiculous. For context my sibling regularly invites DM and DF to their house which is c.60 miles away. They travel there and back (ie 120 miles) in one day, on a motorway, often driving back at night). My sister thinks is fine. I would never ask them to do this as I think it’s too risky.

Am I being unreasonable?

Just because he’s 83, it doesn’t automatically mean he’s an unsafe or at risk driver. My parents were still driving (well) in their 90s. My dad didn’t even need glasses and he was 93.

My mother gave up driving when she was 91. In the last couple of years she would not have been happy driving longer distances but at 83 not only would she go up and down the A1 to see me, but we would go away on holiday together, sometimes abroad, with our sharing the driving.
When she did give up we were all relieved as her spatial awareness had deteriorated, but I noticed when we drove on her 92nd birthday that she was still very alert to traffic conditions.
Im always a bit nervous of driving on Christmas Eve - partly because the roads are very busy and partly because of the narrative imbued by years of programmes like Casualty, where you know if someone is on the motorway on Christmas Eve there is bound to be a disaster.

Patronising and infantilising.

Also, have you been on a train lately?

Cancelled trains leading to cancelled seat reservations, aisles full of people and luggage, missed connections...

This is the issue- plenty of people are safe driving in their 80s. Some need to stop well before. Pride has to be set aside for the safety of others.
It can't be a selfish decision, and short of resitting a driving test, it's not possible for an external body to assess reflexes, or propensity to fall asleep. Children sometimes have to be listened to.

@ButterCrackers it's not that they're unreliable, it's that they're non-existent on Boxing Day!

OP can offer to pay for whatever she likes, but it's pointless with the service doesn't actually exist

I have been thinking more about this, and whilst I, much younger, wouldn't do it any more on Christmas Eve, I was doing it after work so it was mostly a drive in the dark and at the busiest time.

I'd suggest that they need to be sensible, take a view on the weather (heavy rain or snow being reasons not to come & call into M&S for food) and if the weather is reasonable, set out early and factor in plenty of rest stops - even if to just stretch legs.

I've very rarely had a 200 mile journey take 3 hours btw, there's always roadworks and an accident that slow you down especially where the M6 or M25 are involved.

I was at a big reunion yesterday. Most participants were between eighty and ninety. Some of them had driven hundreds of miles. All had to drive because the venue was in the back of beyond. Nobody was tired from the driving. They were all just the same as they were forty odd years ago when we last met.

I can see that from the perspective of younger people the idea of an 83 year old driving distances and "getting tired" seems obvious, but for fit, healthy people of that age, they are really as cognisant and able as they were in their youth.

You either let them drive or not see them over Christmas. There appears to be no alternative. I know you'll worry, but I'm sure they'll be fine.

DO NOT PUT THEM ON THE TRAIN!! I travel 10-20,000 miles by train annually in the UK. I get £100s refunded every year for nightmare journeys. The only question is whether the disruption will be mild or severe on Xmas Eve, and whether there will be any service at all on Boxing Day. It is likely First Class will be declassified, reservations suspended and trains delayed, cancelled or run with standing room only. Staff assistance will be unable to reach them through overcrowding. People will be distressed. Rarely, fights can even break out. There is no slack especially on those days, so if things f&$% up they risk being bussed or taxied last thing at night or put in a hotel not of their choosing.

(Edit: I’m actually pro-train, though it works best if you have a PhD in ticketing so you can manage pricing, work out timetabling to minimise or get round disruption, leave some slack eg so you’re not relying on the last train, and be prepared with manageable luggage, snacks etc. Expect everything to go wrong - it usually doesn’t.)

Why can't he watch football at yours on Boxing Day?

I assume because she doesn't live at the football ground where his team will be playing?

NOT ALL MATCHES ARE TELEVISED and a boxing day match is a big event in the season and the social calendar

It will be a local match at the football ground, not a televised game.

Boxing Day football is a big thing.

Agreed it would be silly money to get a taxi driver to do those journeys on two of the busiest days of the year.

I imagine there will be many Asian Uber drivers who don’t celebrate Xmas who’d be thrilled at such a fare 👍🏻

But I’ve just looked how much an Uber would cost to my late grandparents address (173 miles away) and it’s a minimum of £350. 👎🏻 I presume it would be a lot more on those dates.

Having said that it still may be cheaper than first class rail tickets for two 🤣

What about offering to get them a hotel halfway (on the "there" or "back" element or both), meaning their drive time is reduced? Would that mean you were less worried?

The language here is awful 'don't put them on a train' 'I would allow them' etc.

They're adults. If you have concerns discuss them like you'd discuss with any other adult. If you have concerns about their cognition/ mental capacity then that needs addressing separately (like any other adult).

It all feels very similar to 'I want to put my mum in a home and she doesn't want to'.

I wouldn't accept someone telling me that they're not letting me drive somewhere at my age (41). Not sure why I should accept it in another 40 years. I'd have a discussion about safety etc though and have done with colleagues about certain journeys- I haven't banned them from going but discussed why I feel bits are not safe.

One of the instructors in my DHs local branch of IAM (Institute of Advanced Motoring) is in his 80s. He’ll be a far better driver than a great many half his age. Sure, there’s a number of elderly people who probably shouldn’t even be on the road, but it would be a mistake to assume all those in their 80s are even poor drivers, let alone dangerous ones. If your parent is regularly driving long distances without incident, then this doesn’t seem like a biggie tbh.

Of course - perhaps they could stay an extra day. The trains should run over Christmas though. It’s ridiculous that there is no service.

London to manchester (around 200 miles) would be £280 return each first class train, which would be slightly cheaper but they may still end up standing if it is busy and there is cancellations.

Either they are safe to drive or they aren't the dvla doesn't have a "safe to drive unless it's 200 miles down the motorway" criteria. If you think they are unsafe to be driving there must be a way of reporting them somehow.

I agree with you OP especially when you mentioned the nature of DFs driving. Whilst a midweek Christmas may mean traffic being spread out, I still think a valid and loving concern.

Trains don't run on Christmas Day or Boxing Day so train is not an option.

Younger drivers have far more accidents than older ones.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/650f0694bf7c1a000dbb4624/image-1.svg

I don't subscribe to this.

The older you get, you lose concentration and become tired quickly. Driving requires the ability to make decisions in split seconds.It's very different say driving a couple of miles to the nearest supermarket on a route you know well to driving for minimum 3 hours on a motorway.

200 miles is what, maybe a four hour drive? It'll definitely be tiring but I don't see how you can 'forbid' them.

A good solution would be for them to be able to break up the journey if possible. The roads are hellish on Christmas Eve, which adds risk to all drivers but trains are also horrible. Could you offer to put them up in a Premier Inn halfway the night before?

@saraclara you don’t pay for driver’s return journeys. You pay a premium for Christmas day locally for us not so much outside. Definitely worth calling to ask for best prices snd exploring options here. Could well be a win win.