Difficult situation with sister and nephew

[Sunshineandalltherainbows]

I feel really bad even writing this but I am finding my 4 year old nephew absolutely impossible to be around. His behaviour is poor. My sister must be struggling, says she isn't and it's all normal boy behaviour bit it's not. She often will say he's only 4. When he was she used to say he's only 3.

It's having a huge impact on my family's relationship with her.

For example, it was my son's birthday (who has asd) and we were all eating birthday cake round my parents. My nephew grabbed my son's cake of his plate put it in his mouth and then spat it out on my son's plate. I said that's disgusting don't ever do that again. My son was in tears about it as he hates any form of contamination if his stuff. My sister then said I was wrong to say anything to nephew as he's only 4 and it was only a problem because my son's autism. I'm not being funny but anyone regards of needs would have been bothered about that happening to their food.

We've now been asked about Christmas plans and I just don't want to be around my sister and nephew. He constantly breaks things on purpose and laughs, hits everyone, shouts and screams when told no by parents as my sister never says no.

My parents are struggling too as they don't like their things getting broken.

If I ever mention anything to my sister about his behaviour she becomes extremely defensive but I just can't stand their company at the moment and I feel terrible for saying that. Not sure what to do further but limiting contact seems for the best at the moment.

The Dad isn't being violent to your sister, is he?

Are nursery/preschool seeing this too? I know you said he punched a worker there.
If his behaviour is consistently quite extreme there too I'd be surprised if more hasn't been raised. Is she just shrugging them off too? Or is he not typically presenting in the same way? Imagine it's difficult to tune everyone out! I have worked with families who have just pulled their children out rather than accept that offers of help are coming from a place of kindness.

You are right in that the examples you've given aren't typical behaviour for this age range - I've worked with this age for over a decade. From my experience I would also be worrying about school - higher expectations all round. I have worked with children who have later had exclusions within weeks of starting their reception year. I would be very surprised if she can keep ignoring this long term if he also presents this way outside of the family unit.

I think it's ok just to be consistently honest with your sister. It's not him that you are criticising - but let's be fair she knows that. It's tricky however as you don't want him to know that he's the person being avoided. This won't help. I've been in a slightly similar situation with my own relative - dancing the line between honesty and avoiding a fall out. It's tough.

I think being less available is definitely a good place to start, and a frank conversation if you can face it.

Could this explain it - that the boy wants his Dad's approval and being rude and violent to women and children is the way to get it?
Possibly he's also encouraging him to 'take no notice of the women' too.

My sister then said I was wrong to say anything to nephew as he's only 4 and it was only a problem because my son's autism.

This is nonsense. Taking food from someone else's plate is obviously bad behaviour. As is spitting it out.

I wouldn't go for Christmas if it meant subjecting my son to not only the bad behaviour, but also to any comments along the lines of "oh this isn't really a problem, it's his autism that is the problem".

It’s so wrong to expect the teachers to sort this out. They are not there to parent children.

Good point. Might be acting out what he is seeing.

He needs boundaries and to be taught right from wrong. She’s setting him up to fail already. It’s not going to get better unless she starts to actually parent him.

By 10, he’ll be a nightmare.

I would keep your distance or just spell it out to her.

I don't think my bil is violent to my sister at all. He is caring but finds 'laddy' things funny and thinks its funny when he does it. He is the one that does discipline a lot more than my sister He just isn't around as much. He always puts him on naughty step when he hits my sister and says its not ok to hit women and has said its time to go home when he's broken things.

It's obviously conflicting information for my nephew as on one hand he's being laughed at for saying I'm going to lunch your lights out and then told off when he literally does it.

Unfortunately it's going to be a case of telling your sister the truth. I'm sure you will say it as diplomatically as you can.

As others say, when he gets to school there's going to be a discussion about it whether she likes it or not.
Things won't always be as they are.

Your children are growing up, it’s theirs and your Christmas too. Stay home, and let them enjoy their day rather than risk all the drama and upset

It also might be worth having an awkward conversation - take her out for a coffee without kids and say that dns behaviour isn’t normal for 4, that summer babies are at school by his age and this isn’t school aged behaviour, this is at best starting preschool behaviour. Ask if the preschool have flagged any SEN concerns and say you’ll be there for her if she wants support for getting him help if he really can’t control himself.

I think I’d go softly and listen. Ask her what it’s like living with him. Is it being around others that triggers him or is he like this at home.

Then I think I’d use your own family as an excuse - we want a quiet Christmas. We couldn’t cope with seeing lots of people and noise so we will just be at home. We’ve told mum and dad they can pop in but we aren’t doing a big day. Not about not wanting to spend time with him, but coupled with the “chat” she should get the message.

If you want Christmas to ever be a family event and not something you have to hide and lie about forever you have to deal with this as a family sooner rather than later.

everyone in one room, calm discussion and refuse to allow dsis to make this into a fiasco and say that this is not a lynch squad, this is a loving and respectful intervention. It’s not about blame, it’s about how can we change this to make things better for everyone.

explain how each of you feel and say how it’s affecting you. Explain how you are all prepared to help, but dn needs guidance and support and so does she, and you’re all there for her but if this situation doesn’t change you can’t carry on having things broken, kids upset or worse emulating dn unboundried behaviour. Tell her you WANT to have her included in plans, but it’s getting to a point where you don’t want to, and that’s not right.

you’ve got nothing to lose at this point, you can’t keep lying and hiding plans from her, that’ll hurt way more when she finally finds out (which she will)

My husband was really cross about this whole incident. Foe the obviously bad behaviour and the comment on his autism diagnosis. My husband says she will use anything as an excuse rather than look at what is in front of her.

My children are quite mature and are more frustrated with auntie rather than nephew.

You can't have them round at Christmas because he will break the presents

Be blatant about inviting your parents round and she'll just have to suck it up if she won't parent him ( and his father is an arse)

They're not much of a loss. (although I do feel sorry for your nephew, He'll be the one suffering)

Interesting. I don't know how old they are but maybe your children can be allies in getting DN to behave. At 4 if they pay him attention, play with him and include him in games then he will hero worship them and want to please them. Sounds like the garden or a park might be a good starting point. I wonder if DN would be better behaved without your sister there undermining everyone.

I think however that you cannot accept comments in public from your sister about your son's autism diagnosis. You will have to have to have a serious conversation with her about that.

Considering the picture you’re painting of your sister, her partner and their son, I can’t quite grasp why so many here seem to think she’s ‘struggling’. That’s not the impression I’m getting at all. To be blunt, your sister sounds like a lazy and indulgent parent, her partner is a dick, and their poor son is the inevitable result.
There seems little point in pussy-footing around, what have you actually got to lose by stating quite bluntly that you no longer wish to be around them because your nephew’s behaviour is appalling and you don’t want him wrecking your possessions? So what if it puts her nose out of joint, you’re only preparing her for something she’s going to hear over and over again from other people as he gets older unless both her and her partner start making an effort to reign him in.

I'll have a think about whether to have a chat or not. I just don't think it will be helpful. My dad has tried and he hasn't been listened to. It's not great that it's putting strain on my mum and dads relationship. My mum hates conflict and is just overly nice.

It's interesting to hear about other families who have been through similar. Hopefully as nephew matures and goes to school things will improve.

My sister just will not take on board anything negative related to her son It's always someone else's fault or its he's only 4.

Distance is needed to avoid conflict atm and for the sake of my family. My dad has started to organise a few things separately so he's taking nephew to play centre/ santa stuff and my boys ate going to the panto. Me and my dad are on same page.

I agree with this.

She's a lazy parent and wants others to pick up the slack. I would let her know that she is failing her child - if she kicks off or flounces off you can just weather it and say that you have your DN best interests in mind.

Seems that they are already socially excluded as at nursery IME there are lots of play dates - seems they are not invited as they are round your parents all the time.

Also role model to your DC that they should noy tolerate entitled and rude behaviour (from your DS)

Difficult but you know you need to put your son first and protect him.
I would tell my sister why. She’s clearly in denial.
(we’ve had a 4 year old son and our grandson is now 4. That’s not normal “boy behaviour”)

I couldn’t bear to spend any time at all with that kid. He sounds horrible. He knows exactly what he’s doing, especially when he turned and smiled at you.

Your sister isn’t going to think it’s amusing when he’s older and still has this behaviour. I can see him committing serious crime and ending up behind bars!

Didn't Damian smile when he’d been bad?!

Speak to your parents and make it very clear that if they want to see you and your kids at Christmas than it's going to have to be something where your DS and DN are not invited. You can't tolerate his behaviour and her minimizing it at the expense of your kids. THAT would be bad parenting. He sounds like Horrid Henry.

You are absolutely within your rights to prioritise your own family’s happiness and enjoyment at Christmas without your sister and her son spoiling it. What a shame for your nephew! As your sister says, he’s only 4. But contrary to what she believes that to mean (that he should be allowed to behave however he wants), what it really means is that at 4 he needs to be shown what is and is NOT acceptable, and properly guided and parented. She is really really letting him down, as ultimately rather than it being kind to be so permissive, she is actually being neglectful. She is also preventing him from having close and meaningful relationships with his cousins and aunt and uncle as her defense of his behaviour pushes you all away.

Your DSis is going to get a shock when he starts school as the other parents won’t put up with him breaking their DCs things, being disruptive or hurting their DC.

The teacher will get an earful and her DC won’t get invited to things like parties.

I am that parent. In the past I’ve kicked off big time if another DC is causing mayhem.

Not sure what you can do, but pointing out to her that he’s not going to have a good time at school is a starter.

Maybe have a serious chat / heart to heart with your BIL. Is he ADHD?

Has your nephew been assessed for ASD? Hitting people and not reacting well to being told no can be signs.