Difficult situation with sister and nephew

[Sunshineandalltherainbows]

I feel really bad even writing this but I am finding my 4 year old nephew absolutely impossible to be around. His behaviour is poor. My sister must be struggling, says she isn't and it's all normal boy behaviour bit it's not. She often will say he's only 4. When he was she used to say he's only 3.

It's having a huge impact on my family's relationship with her.

For example, it was my son's birthday (who has asd) and we were all eating birthday cake round my parents. My nephew grabbed my son's cake of his plate put it in his mouth and then spat it out on my son's plate. I said that's disgusting don't ever do that again. My son was in tears about it as he hates any form of contamination if his stuff. My sister then said I was wrong to say anything to nephew as he's only 4 and it was only a problem because my son's autism. I'm not being funny but anyone regards of needs would have been bothered about that happening to their food.

We've now been asked about Christmas plans and I just don't want to be around my sister and nephew. He constantly breaks things on purpose and laughs, hits everyone, shouts and screams when told no by parents as my sister never says no.

My parents are struggling too as they don't like their things getting broken.

If I ever mention anything to my sister about his behaviour she becomes extremely defensive but I just can't stand their company at the moment and I feel terrible for saying that. Not sure what to do further but limiting contact seems for the best at the moment.

There's already drama because of how she expects everyone to pretend his behaviour is normal and acceptable

So do what you have to do. If that means starting your own Christmas traditions then do so. If that means avoiding her for a while then do so. He's four. As he gets older he'll get stronger and also better at hiding what he's up to. It's going to be hell. He's going to target your son as he knows he's vulnerable and will also get a big reaction from him and then say it's because of his ASD. I'm guessing your nephew's dad is encouraging a lot of these behaviours
She's acting like it's ok as presumably she doesn't want to stand up to her child and husband for whatever reason.

I know an 11yo who was this 4yo, complete with dad (and siblings) laughing at his language and both parents minimising his actions. Parents have since split. He continues to struggle in school and with friends. A real pity as I could see he was a bright and funny kid. My own dc eventually gave up on him (neighbours) as they were fed up being hit, kicked and let down. Mum literally closed the door to it all and if forced came out with 'he's only 4/5/6/7/8' and 'Theres two of them in it.' - my dc1 would eventually retaliate, child would scream blue murder and she'd jump on that situation.

I'm very sad to update that I am having an extended break from seeing my sister and family.

I did try and met up in neutral places but nephew's behaviour and more my sister and bills refusal to intervene just caused stress and we would just dread seeing them. He hurts other children in play parks. Puts his middle finger up at strangers and bil would laugh.

We see my parents separately and have got used to the new dynamic. My parents come to our house now.

I do still hope this improves and I hope for my nephew school will be what he needs.

It's all quite sad really and it was sad looming back at me just be worried about Christmas.

School will probably be a big shock for him and your sister too!
Poor teacher.

Yes, it is sad but you did your very best to protect your family.
What happens to your nephew is now up to your SIL and BIL.

Same with d nephew

They can't tell him 'no'

I'm not surprised you don't want to be around him

How was Christmas op? What are your parents views? It sounds like you’ve made the only decision you possibly can. I wonder what your sister really thinks deep down.

I think you’ve done the right thing. Has your sister said anything to your parents about it?

Yo need to do what’s right for your children, your sister and her son and in for a shock when he starts school as his behaviour won’t be tolerated.

Id be surprised if these issues haven’t already been raised by nursery who will send a transition report to the school .

His teachers will know well what's normal for his age so your DSis will have to find another excuse. It's sad but your DSis has put money before her family, if her DH worked less he might have parented more often.

Aaah, OP. I feel your pain. We had a very similar situation with SIL and had to do some distancing of ourselves. It sounds like you might have gone past this point already but one thing we did that wasn't popular, but did help, was that when these situations happened, we made it very clear the behaviour wasn't okay and if SIL tried to make some silly excuse, we'd focus on the OUTCOME for our child so something like, "well, DS shouldn't have to hide his favourite toys in case he destroys them so he can't go in his room until he learns not to".

One one memorable occassion we left in the middle of a family event after he hurt our dd. We were told he didn't mean it etc etc, and we responded with, "that may well be true but we also need to teach our DD that just because someone doesn't mean to hurt her, doesn't mean it's okay that they do." Interestingly, he's never hurt her since.

Basically, we imposed our own boundaries and were very clear that she didn't have to agree with them, but we weren't goign to accept that behaviour.

Sadly, while she has now accepted he is probably ND and is trying to seek help, things are not great. He has no friends, doesn't take part in any extra curricular activities and, I suspect (she's vague on this) is falling behind academically. And sadly, the knowing smirk when he behaves like this.... it makes being aroudn him unbearable, even as I try to tell myself to cut him some slack. ND and poor parenting is not a good combination.

I've only read your posts but I have a 4 yo and I wouldn't accept these behaviours. She's far from a saint but she would have absolutely been pulled up on breaking the TV and the cake incident.
I'm sorry it's come to point where you have had to step away. It sounds like your sister has a coparent problem too and it must be difficult trying to patent a wilful child when the other parent is cheering on the behaviour.
I always say you only have people in your life as much as they are a positive influence on your life whether that is weekly or just birthdays and Christmas or whatever works for you.

Have you ever spoken to your BIL one to one?

It would be interesting to let him know that his DS will be very unpopular amongst his peers and their parents and will be excluded from playdates and parties - and that it is his and your sisters responsibility to parent him appropriately so that he doesnt suffer this.

Tbh it’s a cop out to blame the BIL’s absence, because it sounds like he could be there 100% of the time and his behavior would be the same. BIL and sister are of the same ilk and actively encouraging the kid to follow in their footsteps.

Purposefully making your child repellent is quite the interesting parenting choice.

You've done the right thing. You have to consider your own family.
School will be interesting. Your sis is making a huge rod for her own back. What's 'funny' at 3 or 4 ain't so hilarious at 13 or 14.

You've done the right think. He sounds like a nightmare. Your sister and BIL need to actually parent him. The cake example was grim and totally unnecessary. How did Christmas go in the end?

I haven’t read the whole thread, but since your son is autistic and there is a strong genetic link, it seems quite possible that your DN has AN. My autistic son (PDA profile) presented very much like this at age 4. Most kids want to be good. Hopefully, the school will get to the bottom of whatever is going on.

@Sunshineandalltherainbows

I'm sorry it's come to this for you, but you've made the right decision. Hopefully your Sis and BiL will wake up at some point. But I doubt it.

I'm not sure how long this has been going on but boys do have a testosterone surge around the age of 4 which can mess with them. It might be contributing to him being more erratic and difficult than usual.

Went through something similar but on dh side. His nephews were 3 and 4 and the most feral, horrid children. They actually put me off having kids. SIL too also did the ‘oh they’re just babies ‘ thing. Soon nobody could handle being around them so everyone stopped including them.
i remember once they did something spectacularly naughty and FiL smacked one and I silently cheered.
I Didn’t have them over again to visit for a very long time, and we always visited them in their home so if they wanted to trash it then it didn’t bother me.

im sure MN would have diagnosed them with all sorts, but they were just naughty. They are all grown up now and turned out to be lovely young adults, responsible and a pleasure to be around.

I think it came to a point where they had the reputation follow them as being awful and SIL had to eventually address this.