Difficult situation with sister and nephew

[Sunshineandalltherainbows]

I feel really bad even writing this but I am finding my 4 year old nephew absolutely impossible to be around. His behaviour is poor. My sister must be struggling, says she isn't and it's all normal boy behaviour bit it's not. She often will say he's only 4. When he was she used to say he's only 3.

It's having a huge impact on my family's relationship with her.

For example, it was my son's birthday (who has asd) and we were all eating birthday cake round my parents. My nephew grabbed my son's cake of his plate put it in his mouth and then spat it out on my son's plate. I said that's disgusting don't ever do that again. My son was in tears about it as he hates any form of contamination if his stuff. My sister then said I was wrong to say anything to nephew as he's only 4 and it was only a problem because my son's autism. I'm not being funny but anyone regards of needs would have been bothered about that happening to their food.

We've now been asked about Christmas plans and I just don't want to be around my sister and nephew. He constantly breaks things on purpose and laughs, hits everyone, shouts and screams when told no by parents as my sister never says no.

My parents are struggling too as they don't like their things getting broken.

If I ever mention anything to my sister about his behaviour she becomes extremely defensive but I just can't stand their company at the moment and I feel terrible for saying that. Not sure what to do further but limiting contact seems for the best at the moment.

I think it's a strong possibility & from what we know neurodivergency does run through families like wildfire.
We only have one perspective as well. The sister would certainly give another story.

He’s 4. Nothing you’ve described is out of place for a 4 yo who hasn’t started school yet

A 4 year old is perfectly capable of knowing you dont spit food over someone else's plate! IF they are taught what is and is not ok!

Thos 4 year old is NOT being taught what is ok. In fact he is being taught he can do what he likes with people and their property!! A recipe for increasing disaster!

This

Agreed he is 4 not 1.

The sister & perhaps their child sounds neurodivergent, rather than badly behaved it might well be something else going on,

Until some attempts at parenting him are being made , no one can really tell.

No acknowledgement that the behaviour is wrong/upsetting, no attempt to stop /misdirect it, no attempt to correct the behaviours, no apologies to the people affected, etc. That's not ND , that's ineffective parenting. Of course it could be both, a ND child with shitty parenting will still be ND. That would make this type of parenting even worse.

I wouldn’t worry about friction. She needs to realise it’s unacceptable and the impact it’s having.

if it was me I would have no more in person contact when the son is there and encourage your parents to do the same. She has to learn that she needs to parent her child.

Well we don't really Know this, we only have one perspective don't we

It doesn't sound like you have the closest relationship with her anyway. So, IMO, you really have nothing to lose by telling her straight.

Something like: 'You don't like me reprimanding your child when he's naughty in my home. But, at the same, I can't let bad behaviour go unpunished in my home. That being the case, we'd both be better spending Christmas separately.'

I'd try writing her a letter or email, tell her that you've no intention of spending Christmas, or any other time with them socially, until she has taught her child how to behave. Tell her all the things that you're unhappy with, and point out that it's her job to teach him, not down to him to miraculously become well behaved, when she's not putting any boundaries in place to help him. I would also point out that he's going to school soon, and ask her if she really wants her child to be the one that all the other kids avoid because he's not been taught how to share, make friends, or whatever the problems are. You could, if your parents agree, even tell her that your parents don't enjoy having them there, because while they love him to bits, he breaks things that they've worked hard for, and that upsets them, and is even causing problems between them. I would also mention that your children don't want him at yours because he breaks their things too. Tell her that this in NOT acceptable behaviour for a 4 year old, and her excuses about him only being little, no longer wash. Then sign off by saying that you love her and her child, and feel that as her sister you need to tell her the truth, before someone else does. You could perhaps offer to help her with some ideas of how she might get through to him, or maybe suggest a parenting class in the area. Obviously word your letter to suit the things that are happening, I've just tried to give you some ideas.

The thing with writing a letter or email, is that the recipient is forced to read it, and can't argue or interrupt what you are trying to tell them, so you have a better chance of getting your point across.

She will likely call you and react angrily, or she might call your Mum expecting her to agree that you're a nasty interfering bitch, or whatever, so it might be worth warning your parents what you plan to do, and suggesting that if she does call them, that it's their one and only opportunity to join forces with you, and tell her that you're right, and that she does need to get a grip on his behaviour. It sounds like your DF would happily back you up, but it's likely your Mum, who would back down, so talk to her or suggest your DF does, beforehand if you feel it's necessary.

I do hope that even if you don't take my advice, you are able to make your sister see sense, as otherwise this poor little boy is going to suffer through bad parenting, which is not his fault.

Recalling how nephew seemed really mal-adjusted, and was aggressive towards my 3-; yr old. Both same age. Throwing dirt in my DS face, breaking toys, chucking out window, spray bug spray in DS face (should not have had access but SIL a free spirit… ). He wasn’t potty trained til late (she wanted nursery to do it), slow speaking, choc milk in his bottle at 4, talked in really weird tv cartoon voice. A kid needed to keep an eye on all the time.

15 yrs later, and he’s at a top Uni, grew up motivated despite his free spirit & lazy mum.

Brilliant answer, and very fair.

I don't know why you have come to the conclusion we don't have a close relationship from my posts as I has said many times what a close family we are. What is making the situation difficult is actually how close we are.
I have said we want a quiet Christmas at home and my mum is going to come round for breakfast. My dad has actually decided to work on Christmas day so that has made things less awkward that things are different to how they usually are.
We didn't get together over Halloween like we usually do. My mum said my sister had said she doesn't understand why so it is a discussion I am going to have to have soon.

How about “my children find dn’s behaviour too overwhelming so i thought it best to not meet up this Halloween. Hopefully he’ll have grown up a bit more by next year.”

polite honesty, if she’s convinced it’s just that he’s 4, well then fine - you’ll see him when he’s older and better behaved because this isn’t acceptable.

Although you may have and I haven’t read it, you should tell your sister that it’s putting a strain on your parents relationship because the boy is left to get away with his behaviour.

So now your poor DF has decided to work on Xmas day to avoid his spoiled daughter and brat of grandson, is it not about time your DM came clean and tell her daughter some home truth, the situation seems utterly ridiculous;.someone needs to tell your sister
that unless the child behaves he will not be welcome.

You should be honest with your mum. ‘Mum I know yiu find it really hard to be direct about nephews behaviour to your sister, is it really easier to almost never see your family together again and constantly have to make up reasons why? Also, is it fair on nephew who grows older every day?’

My mum said my sister had said she doesn't understand why so it is a discussion I am going to have to have soon.

Someone will have to tell her. Surely, the penny will drop sooner or later when no-one wants her around for family get togethers?

Your sister suggested that your son’s disability caused the problem with her sons shit behaviour - I wouldn’t have her or anyone else who does that anywhere near him, to be blunt.

Who are you supposed to apologise to? Sister wasn't present, child won't remember and BIL deserves to be whacked with a coaster (a heavy one). I suppose you'd better say sorry to keep the peace, but well done OP for standing up for your dog, bless him.

Okay that appeared on the wrong thread altogether, I have no idea why!

She’ll be the mum who comes on here and complains her son isn’t invited to parties, has no friends, and can’t understand why!

She’s doing him no favours!

Id be honest with her, she’ll be hearing it from school soon enough.

I remember mine at 4, is only have to give them the ‘look’ and they knew they were in trouble!

He knows, and she knows. Shes choosing to ignore the behaviour.

I know this thread has been resurrected by mistake but how is the nephew now OP?

One of our mantras parenting is 'add 12 years'. Take the behaviour the 4 year old is doing now - hitting, lying, bullying - and think forward 12 years. That behaviour, which might have a funny side in a 4 year old, will be a nightmare in a 16 year old. It's been helpful to us when we are tired and tempted not to do the hard work of stepping in and giving correction / appropriate discipline during the younger years. There have been so many awful stories on MN of single mums terrified by their violent teenage boys, it's a very good motivator to be getting well on top of any sort of violent behaviour at a young age.

Your poor parents, your mum doesn’t want any trouble as she knows saying anything will cause a rift with your sister and your dad doesn’t want their possessions broken, or to walk on eggshells and ignore bad behaviour just to keep the peace for his wife’s sake.
The trouble is some parents see gentle parenting as an excuse to sit back and allow their children to be feral, that’s not gentle parenting, it’s laziness. I can’t say I fully understand gentle parenting myself but I do know seeing my daughter implement it with my grandson that you do have clear boundaries and children are taught to recognise not only their own emotions but how their actions impact other people’s emotions. They are taught right from wrong and if my grandson was taking someone else’s food from their plate she would stop him from doing it, explain why and if he did it again remove him from the table. If he still wasn’t listening she would explain that they are going home unless he makes better choices to behave and then if he still continued take him home so he learns the consequences.
Your sister is passively letting her child do as he pleases and then blaming everyone else for being too sensitive or ND and disregarding anyone else’s emotions when they get upset at her son’s behaviour.