Difficult situation with sister and nephew

[Sunshineandalltherainbows]

I feel really bad even writing this but I am finding my 4 year old nephew absolutely impossible to be around. His behaviour is poor. My sister must be struggling, says she isn't and it's all normal boy behaviour bit it's not. She often will say he's only 4. When he was she used to say he's only 3.

It's having a huge impact on my family's relationship with her.

For example, it was my son's birthday (who has asd) and we were all eating birthday cake round my parents. My nephew grabbed my son's cake of his plate put it in his mouth and then spat it out on my son's plate. I said that's disgusting don't ever do that again. My son was in tears about it as he hates any form of contamination if his stuff. My sister then said I was wrong to say anything to nephew as he's only 4 and it was only a problem because my son's autism. I'm not being funny but anyone regards of needs would have been bothered about that happening to their food.

We've now been asked about Christmas plans and I just don't want to be around my sister and nephew. He constantly breaks things on purpose and laughs, hits everyone, shouts and screams when told no by parents as my sister never says no.

My parents are struggling too as they don't like their things getting broken.

If I ever mention anything to my sister about his behaviour she becomes extremely defensive but I just can't stand their company at the moment and I feel terrible for saying that. Not sure what to do further but limiting contact seems for the best at the moment.

This is really shocking. If he were to repeat this in school I suspect a record of a safeguarding incident would be made.

Don't have your sister over at Christmas just spend it peacefully with your family, invite your parents only in the afternoon if you wish. Distance yourself from your sister until your DN is better behaved, he won't be invited to too many children parties if it's the way he behaves. Disgusting behaviour with your DC cake, l wouldn't put up with that, your DS is an idiot.

Off topic but I'd be tempted when it's anyone's birthday to have 'only x yrs old ' on the cake

I think if the child’s behaviour is this bad, I’d have to say something and not tiptoe around it. It might be the shock your sister needs if you were to say something like, “Sorry DSis, nephew’s behaviour is unbearable, unless you can control him, I don’t want him in my house damaging my things.” And I wouldn’t arrange anything in secret, let her know why she’s not invited. She needs to know that everyone finds the behaviour unacceptable and that you’re not in the minority.

Yes, he’s only 4 so he will have low impulse control…but how will he learn what is acceptable behaviour if he’s never told no.

School is going to be a huge shock to them both!

I would have told your DS to take her 4 year old away after behaving like that. You should put your DC first.
I don't understand why your DP put up with that, they should refuse to have them around, l am all for peace within the family but they are limits, it is not doing the child any favours

This makes me so angry. Another case of a child whose parents are choosing not to parent properly. There is absolutely no excuse for this behaviour. Stealing food from another child’s plate then spitting it out? His mother should have yanked him out of there and punished him for this abhorrent behaviour. “He’s only 2/3/4/8/14” is not an acceptable excuse. The fact that he is being excused for his behaviour and/or dad is finding it funny is not helping anyone.
Kids need boundaries and accountability.
If I was in Op’s position I would avoid contact with him for the sake of my own children. The grandparents also need to step up and make it clear that they won’t tolerate this behaviour.

Lol
I think your sister is raising a serial killer or something horrible. Next, he’ll be harming animals.

Don’t allow sister to bring nephew around during the holidays. He will break your children’s things, you know, because he’s only four.

Your sister is THAT mum and her child will suffer for it.

My niece is like this op.she is 7 She is badly behaved due to lack of parenting and she loves getting other people into trouble such as my son and her older brother and the smirk when she achieves it is just a bit evil. I know you should not say that about a child but it just is. My nephew bless him was basically brought up by my in-laws as my SIL did not know what to do with a boy!!!! He now spends most of his time at our house and we have actually turned our spare room into a room for him.

My SIL makes excuses for her at every turn, apparently if she has been good at school at all week we can’t possible expect her to be good at weekend!!!
She just stands there and screams when she does not get her own way. My SIL is desperately trying to get her diagnosed with something so she can use it as an excuse but school are not buying it and won’t support her in doing this.

unfortunately my in-laws also indulged my SIL as a child and indulge her now. We don’t spend a lot of time with them now as a family since we went there for last Christmas lunch and my niece was allowed to sing and make fart noises all the way through the lunch.

Hi OP’s sister.

I'd explain to my sister that it's fine for her to parent as she wants - on her territory. In grandparents house, it's grandparents rules apply. In your house, your rules apply. Get right down to his level and explain the repercussions of poor behaviour in your house (start off with only well behaved people will be getting ice cream or whatever). He won't be long learning. Kids are clever. My own two behaved like angels in my Mother's house when they were small. She has high standards for behaviour at dinner table. Same two would descend into monkeys at MIL's table, where there were no standards. I'd suggest you have him over to your house without his Mother to introduce him to the new ground rules.

Mum of 3 here , one has autism and a learning disability .
That behaviour, taking the cake , chewing it and spitting it out into your son’s plate is completely unacceptable , disgusting 🤢
My child with disabilities wouldn’t have done that at age 4 , although was a bit messy with own food , and did things that would appear odd to others .
I parented her differently to my other 2 and managed her other behaviour appropriately.
And I had no help / support other than when she went to nursery for 2 sessions a week .

@Sunshineandalltherainbows
What a difficult situation!
I have so many questions but will just add a few;
Has she seen you struggle with your ND son, hence so defensive re her son’s ’normal boy behaviour’?
Why do you let her get away with not paying for breakages?
Has she always been so disrespectful of others?
Is she ND or self centred?
If BIL disciplines more than her, why don’t you have family gatherings when he can attend?
You obviously need to respect your family ie your DH and DC and arrange a xmas that caters to them.
Good luck.

Have you read 'We need to talk about Kevin' by Lionel Shriver. Terrifying. I hope it isn't appropriate.

As the mother of 2 sons with 2 years between them, and a daughter 14 years younger than my eldest, that is absolutely NOT normal 4yr old boy behaviour. My son's were, and still are, very much typical traditional boys, and no matter how badly behaved they were, they were never that bad and when they were being naughty, I was happy for their aunts/uncles and grandparents, and even my good friends, to tell them off. They need to learn to respect people in their lives, otherwise they will end up in a lot of trouble as they get older!

It sounds a bit like neurodivergency is definitely in the wider family.

Fiction.

If it was me I would not bother. If a child has got to 4 years and behaves that way, then the child is a brat. Look after your own and stay away from badly behaved children. Your parents should also say that they can't afford to replace broken items. Once she is isolated maybe she will see that something is wrong with her parenting skills.

Op I think it would be worth trying to tackle your mother’s enabling of this situation. At the moment your and your Dad’s attempts to talk sense into your sister are being rebuffed because she’s still got your mum onside, reassuring her that everything is fine and backing up her poor parenting choices.

If you can get your mum to see how unhelpful - no, downright harmful her enabling is, then you might together be one step closer to getting through to your sister.

In the meantime protect your own kids by keeping them away, and try to see your sister on her own, just the two of you, for regular coffees and chats so that she knows you are still there for her if she reaches out for help.

Nothing is set in stone at four years old. What would be the point of school if children were written off before they started? However, outcomes for this child are bound to be worse on the current trajectory than if the parents received some support with their misguided parenting.

@Nextdoor55

why?

The sister & perhaps their child sounds neurodivergent, rather than badly behaved it might well be something else going on,

I don’t see anything in the description of the sister to support this, and as I said upthread no-one can know if the nephew might be because he’s never been given any boundaries at all, he does exactly what he likes. Maybe if his parents actually did some parenting but still struggled with the same issues there might be a case to argue for PDA and other neurodiversity, but at the moment it’s impossible to say.