Friend doesn't want to go out after dark on holiday

[curtainp0le]

I am going on holiday for 3 nights with 2 friends to a popular city in Spain in a couple of weeks. One friend, let's call her Susan, is keen to go to a bar or a club one evening. We are mid/late 20s but none of us are major clubbers or party people. I don't drink at all. The other friend, Elaine, is reluctant to go to a bar. She is scared to 'be out too late in a place I don't know. Scary stories in the news have made me extra cautious'.
I said that we will stick together, but even at that she is worried about walking back late to our hotel as we are 'still a group of girls'. I said there will be night buses and trams. I also pointed out that in Spain they eat dinner late and it will get dark about 7pm, so by necessity we will probably have to be out after dark if we want to have anything to eat. At this, Elaine said we will need to get a phone number for a taxi.

AIBU to feel a bit annoyed about this attitude? I totally understand, in light of recent events, why she is concerned. I don't want to cause drama. But I also feel we need to be realistic that statistically anything like that is extremely unlikely. I don't want to feel restricted on the basis of Elaine's fears. I don't want to sit in the hotel from 7pm onwards. It's my holiday too! And Susan genuinely wants to go to a bar. How would you manage this?

Don't ever ask Elaine to go on holiday again is my advice.

Does she think all Spanish women stay in after dark?

I don’t understand how you can maintain a friendship with someone so feeble. Do you normally only socialise May to September?

I would have a chat about your plans for the break before you get on the plane
Elaine has her fears, but she shouldn't be calling the shots about what you or Susan can do
Go out with Susan and have fun

Drop Elaine back at the hotel, then go out with Sue, seems like a reasonable compromise. The middle ground is also where you are at, food and a bar maybe, rather than clubbing till dawn.

Elaine sounds fun (not)

I honestly thought you were going to say you were in your 70s. You’re in your 20s. Go out. Nothing bad will happen. Goodness me life is for living. I’m in my 40s with young children, what wouldn’t give to have a night out in Barcelona (I’m guessing) with girlfriends. You have all the time in the world to stay in a be safe, but whilst you’re young, grab it with both hands. You’ll just have to leave her on her own. Just say ‘we’re on holiday, of course we are staying out after it gets dark.’

Does she think women were safe before Sarah Everad?? Bizarre. Make it clear she'll be left at the hotel. What does the other friend think?

I totally understand, in light of recent events, why she is concerned.

I don’t. I really don’t.

Spanish cities are just.. cities. Where millions of people, ordinary people, go about their daily business with no bother. Just like in London.

I am so done with pandering to this sort of shit. I would just say ‘fine, if you feel happier, you must of course stay in the hotel but I am in Spain and will be enjoying it “ And go.

Sarah Everard and Ashling Murphy were both attacked when out on their own in a quiet area with no other people around.

What on earth does Elaine think is going to happen to you, in a group of three, in a lively Spanish city centre where the streets will be busy until dawn? There will be toddlers out later than Elaine.

It's not possible to go to somewhere like Spain and not go out late (which at this time of year will be dark) unless you agree to go to an all-inclusive resort and never leave the site. I'm assuming this isn't an all-inclusive and you've just booked a hotel that happens to have a restaurant, i.e. you could eat there if so inclined but don't have to? The sort of person who wants to do all-inclusive and sort of person who doesn't really shouldn't be on the same holiday together...

I get the fear. The fear is real. I'm more aware of risk now than when I was younger. I will go out when it's dark, but I don't really drink anymore and I always wear shoes I can run in if chased. I wouldn't want to go out in a foreign country if the two women I was with were planning to get shitfaced, but it doesn't sound like that applies here (you even said you don't drink).

The compromise is that you and Susan go out, Susan is sensible with her drinking and as you say, you don't drink anyway. That way, Elaine knows you're not putting yourselves into a vulnerable situation - you're going out in a pair and you're both fully alert and aware of your surroundings. She stays in with room service and doesn't worry about the two of you as much as she might because she knows you're making sensible choices. You send her a text when you're both safely back at the hotel and not dead.

But the above is only a valid plan if you, Susan and Elaine are all close friends and not just three random women who have ended up on holiday together. I'd modify my behaviours slightly, I'd send 'Not dead yet x' messages as needed, but I wouldn't spend my holiday in my hotel every single night. That would be pushing what I'm prepared to do for someone else's anxiety.

I spent my 20s almost exclusively socializing at night time, in countries all over the world that I was backpacking in. Found myself in the most wild situations with all sorts of people, had an absolute blast.

She's an absolute idiot! My DDs are a similar age and they live their lives without fear. One is currently living in a European capital city solo. She also lived in London for a year doing student internships on her own. She's always considered herself to be socially awkward, but she managed to do that!! She spent three years in uni far away from home.

Eldest spent a year in France living on the premises of the school where she worked with no-one else on site! Shit all public transport too. She also spent 3 weeks in China not knowing anyone before she went, plus two months solo in Spain, and 3 years in an English city where she also didn't know anyone to begin with, and lived alone.

Elaine has massive issues!!

Posted too soon. You’re young! It’s only Spain?! Just go and have fun. Boring Elaine can stay in by herself.

So you're all in your mid twenties but the first names you could come up with were Susan and Elaine?

You were born around 2000 and your friend wants a "number for a local taxi". You wouldn't be old enough to actually call for a taxi, you'd have been using Uber or similar since you were old enough to be going out in the evenings. Try harder.

Yeah I wouldn’t do any of that. I’m not going to pander to a wet lettuce, actually I wouldn’t go on holiday with someone like this either. I’m no spring chicken, but when I’m on holiday I want to enjoy myself and that includes eating out, drinking loads and maybe dancing, all of which happens a lot later than 7 pm, especially if I’m in Spain!

This 100%. The odds of being attacked by a stranger are low. The majority of violence that happens to women and kids is by people they know

It will probably get dark at 8:30pm if not later, the clocks change this weekend and I've just come back from Spain and it wasn't dark until 8pm. Plenty of locals out and about like it was a summer evening at that time no different to being out in the day, especially as Spaniards are much better behaved than English people after a few drinks.

She can stay in the hotel. Don't cater to this and stay in. It's your holiday too.

The OP specifically said Susan wasn't a big drinker. So, it shouldn't be a big deal for her and Susan to not drink loads and to let Elaine know that, to help her worry less.

I'd pander a little bit if I was good enough friends to go on holiday with someone, but I am slightly baffled at why the three of them have agreed to go on holiday together. It doesn't sound like Susan and Elaine have similar worldviews.

Your aunt had a mobile phone that could be used in Spain 30years ago? I doubt this very much unless she was loaded. I think one of you might be ' misremembering'

I think this should have been said before you chose when to go and booked anything. If you then thought it would not really work you could have chosen not to go.

To be honest, I'd be much more confident in Spain than in the UK in an evening (have not been there since 2018), as they have a no nonsense police force and a functioning justice system.

As others said, she can stay in the hotel and you go out. Don’t let her anxieties dictate the whole holiday, she’s being ridiculous. Most European cities are completely safe for women, I’d put money on whichever Spanish city it is being as safe at night as London or Manchester.

Thr clocks go the other way. If it was dark at 8pm now, it'll be dark at 7.

Spent a good few weeks in Spain last year. A lot of restaurants didn’t open until 8 or even 9. I agree with people who said toddlers will be out later than Elaine. Playgrounds were packed after dark as it was too hot to go to them during the day. I would make it clear in advance that you will not be staying in the hotel and intend going out at night. She can do whatever she wants but you don’t have to stay in with her.

When you are replying to the original OP you don’t need to quote the post