Friend doesn't want to go out after dark on holiday

[curtainp0le]

I am going on holiday for 3 nights with 2 friends to a popular city in Spain in a couple of weeks. One friend, let's call her Susan, is keen to go to a bar or a club one evening. We are mid/late 20s but none of us are major clubbers or party people. I don't drink at all. The other friend, Elaine, is reluctant to go to a bar. She is scared to 'be out too late in a place I don't know. Scary stories in the news have made me extra cautious'.
I said that we will stick together, but even at that she is worried about walking back late to our hotel as we are 'still a group of girls'. I said there will be night buses and trams. I also pointed out that in Spain they eat dinner late and it will get dark about 7pm, so by necessity we will probably have to be out after dark if we want to have anything to eat. At this, Elaine said we will need to get a phone number for a taxi.

AIBU to feel a bit annoyed about this attitude? I totally understand, in light of recent events, why she is concerned. I don't want to cause drama. But I also feel we need to be realistic that statistically anything like that is extremely unlikely. I don't want to feel restricted on the basis of Elaine's fears. I don't want to sit in the hotel from 7pm onwards. It's my holiday too! And Susan genuinely wants to go to a bar. How would you manage this?

Can I ask how you three all became friends? Elaine sounds very different from you and Susan. Has she always been like this? Did you know of her preference for not going to before you booked the holiday?
Seems a bit bizarre to book a holiday without knowing this?

But I'd leave her to it and just go out.

What recent events?

You and Susan make clear that you will be going out to bars and restaurants in the evening. Elaine is welcome to join you, or she can stay behind at the hotel if she prefers .Just no dithering or attempting to dictate the holiday to the two of you.

I suspect Elaine might change her tune when it becomes clear that she will be left behind otherwise.

Also the FB groups #solo women travellers.

Does she go out after dark at home?

Where? We stay in Madrid several times a year and there are restrictions for traffic right in the centre so cab drivers charge more or dont like to go, dropping you at the corner etc

Our family isnt always able to drop us right to our apartments depending on where we're staying.

When I lived in Spain I’d sometimes go to sleep to the sound of primary age kids playing football in the square while their parents sat in one of the bars. And that would have been at 11pm. On a weekday. It sounds like Elaine needs to just witness what life is like in other places. Maybe if the hotel room has a balcony or window facing a busy street, she’ll realise she’s being silly and just go out with you and your other friend?

Go out and leave her alone if necessary. Just be very, very, very aware of pickpockets, so leave any cards or cash not absolutely needed in the hotel safe.

if you stay togeter its fine if she refuses she'll have to stay in the hotel

you'll be lucky if its still light at 7 the clocks go back soon

You're not being unreasonable but I can kind of see herbpoint if she's anxious and scared herself with stories.

My aunty went to Spain, was in a bar and met a man, he walked her to her hotel as she was a single woman on her own. They went to his place on the way for some boring innocuous reason. While there he invited her to wait inside when she got a phone call from her daughter. Daughter having a minor emergency so aunty says thanks but I need to get to hotel and leaves him at his place. Gets to hotel, video calls daughter, sorts out the situation. Goes home the next day.

A couple days later this man is on the news after he was found luring single women to his house to rape and murder them. My aunty never went out in the evening on her own again as far as I know.

Imagine being so scared of the unlikely event of being harmed that you forget to actually live a life. How depressing

I don't have one, it's not made up. It apparently happened maybe 30+ years ago? I was a kid at the time and it's stayed with me because of how awful it is.
Things like that do happen, it's rare but maybe ops friend has had something happen or felt uncomfortable when someone followed her or whatever. My point is that although on the face of it op isn't unreasonable, maybe friend is worried because of anxiety or experience etc

Those events, tragic though they were, are not ones that I would even have connected with a trip to Spain. I thought she meant relating to Spain itself.

You are visiting a city. Presumably somewhere like Madrid, Valencia or Barcelona. Stick to well lit and generally busy areas, stay together and you'll be totally fine. Work out the buses and trains, use taxis if needed. Most bars or restaurants will call a taxi for you when you are leaving if you ask them to and sharing the cost three ways will keep it reasonable.

I'm so sorry she feels this way but you should absolutely not entertain it for a second. We are going to Paris next week and my kids main ask is 'to see the Eiffel Tower after dark' so we will probably see it all lit up, then eat dinner, then head home. Imagine we will be out til 10 or 11pm, with a 8 and 11 YO. If I was there with other women we'd probably be in a restaurant or bars til after midnight

Did they have video calls in those days?

I would let your friend stay at the hotel and go out with your other friend.

I don’t think that it’s ridiculous to be careful in general but not to this extent. Are you going to walk miles out of the town after dark or just 10minutes walk in a city ? If the former, yes Elaine is right. If the latter… I would tell her politely in advance that Spain is generally safe and you would want to go out for dinner and maybe drinks afterwards but I wouldn’t ridicule her or anything.
Maybe Susan overdid a bit on the topic how wild you are going to hit Spanish bars and that made Elaine really anxious?

Well tragic and horrific as situations like that are, the reality is, its not common, not from strangers anyway. Also statistically men are much more at risk of harm when 'out out' rather than women, from other men of course.

There is being vigilant and sensible and then there is letting disproportionate concern rule your life

Its up to her but I dont know what she thinks she is going to get out of a 3 day break like this. Spain is all about the night life and bar/tapas hopping.

We're not nightclubbers at all, we visit regularly, 6 or 7 times a year, but we're out until 1ish (and thats early, we're very old!)

A taxi doesn't solve the problem. The point of being out in the evening is to wander and enjoy the atmosphere, not have a taxi drop you at a restaurant and then drop you straight back to the hotel.

Exactly that, meandering the streets, people watching, soaking up, finding little streets and alleys.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Tell her that you're actually worried now that you have different ideas about holidays and you don't want to fall out over it, but that you have full intention of being out after dark and that youll be no more or less safe on holiday in Spain than you would be here.

I don't have one, it's not made up. It apparently happened maybe 30+ years ago? I was a kid at the time and it's stayed with me because of how awful it is.

oh lordie @OwnBrandCornflake use your critical thinking skills. Video calls did not exist 30+ years ago, mobile phones barely. This didn’t happen.

Not tourists, not in Spain, not in a group, and one of them was in the middle of the afternoon. Does she not leave the house at all when at home, even during daylight?

My paternal gran was Catalan and I spent a lot of summer holidays in and around Barcelona. Even as young kids we were out until the early hours of the morning. Thats the culture - to visit Spain and not indulge the late night culture is wasted trip imo.

Its not even about clubs and bars - the streets are vibrant and buzzing after dark