To think my friendship will need to end due to Israel/Palestine?

[VioletW]

I've been close friends with a Jewish woman for ten years. We went on lots of trips together, lived in two different countries at the same times, been there for each other through all sorts.

Anyway since she moved I see her once or twice a year, the second time usually being Christmas. She always looks me up at Christmas and I'm anticipating the same this year.

My position is that I disagree with the October 8 attacks and also what's happening in Gaza is horrific. I've been to demonstrations about this, even bumping into two other Jewish friends at these.

I've seen my friend posting online that these demos are 'Anti Israel'. All of her posts are in support of fighting anti semitism and she has never posted about Palestine, although she works for a humanitarian organisation. AIBU to think this simply ends the friendship?

Not necessarily. I know Jewish people who hold different views from their own family members , they call each other every name under the sun and disagree but they remain friends and maintain a relationship.. I have very similar views to my father politically but we can't be in the same room together and I haven't seen him for 10 years.

You can just not discuss it.

In defence of the Palestinian people. I live in as free and safe a society as currently exists and I won't go on the record publicly and say something as utterly basic as there are only two sexes and they are immutable. I wouldn't really assume that what people living under Hamas say publicly is what they truly believe. Speaking against the narrative in Palestine could get you and your family killed. So I don't put a huge amount of stock in surveys done in Palestine. Gaza or the West Bank, as Hezbollah are not as bad as Hamas, but they are still dangerous. Most people, deep down, just want to be allowed to be allowed to live mostly safe lives of reasonable comfort.

@Lolapusht

Amazing how often people basically just end up effectively shouting “Just stop being so Jewish!” They slowly make their way through each stereotype without realising they’ve exposed themselves then get all upset when it’s pointed out. What have we had so far? Liars, nazis, got all the money…have we had controlling the media?

It’s so depressingly predictable.

Would you have expected the Germans in 1942 to have spoken out against the genocide that was being carried out in their name? Or better that they kept quiet so as not to upset family. What do you think?

Anyway, I am bowing out as I don’t want to derail OPs thread anymore than already has been, OP I hope you find the answer you are looking for.

"In defence of the Palestinian people. I live in as free and safe a society as currently exists and I won't go on the record publicly and say something as utterly basic as there are only two sexes and they are immutable. I wouldn't really assume that what people living under Hamas say publicly is what they truly believe. Speaking against the narrative in Palestine could get you and your family killed. So I don't put a huge amount of stock in surveys done in Palestine. Gaza or the West Bank, as Hezbollah are not as bad as Hamas, but they are still dangerous. Most people, deep down, just want to be allowed to be allowed to live mostly safe lives of reasonable comfort."

I've heard many Palestinians living in the West supporting Hamas too. They don't have to. They're safe here. They align to Hamas.

absolutely @EsteemedOpinions it's depressingly predictable and awful

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/30/us/palestinian-american-boy-stabbed

I've heard many jews living in the West supporting Israel too. They don't have to. They're safe here. They align to Israel.

Well they wouldn't be saying it publicly, that's not how this type of research works. AFAIK there is no question over the validity or credibility of the work carried out by either the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research & Dr. Shiki or over their findings.

It's worth remembering that when Hamas first stood for election, they did so on a platform that included a commitment to wipe Israel out, and they were still voted into power by the people of Gaza.

I don't know why there's such a reluctance to accept that Palestinians might support Hamas' views and not want Israel to exist or Jewish people to live in the Middle East.

I mean it's not exactly hard to see the general attitude to other religions, and what happens to them, in that region. Outside of Israel, Iran had the largest population of Jewish people in the Middle East, with somewhere between 65,000-85,000 living there in 2000. Today there's less than a 8,500 left and that's STILL the second biggest Jewish population outside of Israel. In fact, every country in the Middle East, apart from Israel, has seen a decline in it's Jewish populations since 2000.

People like to talk a lot about ethnic cleansing in relation to what Israel is doing in Palestine, yet there's not a peep about the fact that every other Middle Eastern country has created a situation where the majority of their Jewish populations have felt the need to leave their homes and country.

It's strange that you're thinking of cutting her off because you imagine she's condemning YOU? When she's never said anything of the sort and it's all in your head?

No, we're not safe here. That's why we pay £1600 per child for security at school. Because we're not safe. It's why synagogues have security. Jewish old age homes. Nurseries.

We are not safe.

Does OPs friend agree with the actions of the current Israeli government? I missed that part.

It's saying it to anyone. If I was Palestinian, living under the reality of Hamas, what i think and what I'd say, even to members of my own family, would be very, very different. In the same way as we know many people lived in Soviet states, but honestly more dangerous. That said, I don't necessarily believe that all Palestinians, accept the existence of Israel. I'm Irish, the fact is most of us, if we could magically choose, would choose a United Ireland over the existence of a Northern Ireland. I'm never going to do anything to make that happen, it's just something I would wish could be.

But it can't, people live there who don't want that, and even when they become the minority, their wishes can't just be overridden. The vast, vast majority of people don't feel even remotely strongly enough about Nationalism to ever risk the peace that exists there. I believe that humans are humans and that if people live safe comfortable lives, most people are extremely, extremely reluctant to ever risk jeopardising that for a pipe dream. Though, I fully acknowledge that radical Islam isn't comparable to Irish Nationalism/Ulster Unionism. And the situation in the ME is vastly different to that in Ireland/NI and the rest of the UK.

First and foremost, Hamas has to lose power. The Hezbollah and Likud alike need to lose power. There has to be a two state solution and Netenyahu is every bit as opposed to that as Hezbollah. Neither side can ever fully win, there has to be compromise and none of the current groups in power in Israel, Gaza or the West Bank will ever truly compromise.

We don’t need your solidarity or acknowledgment. We do what we think is right. Thanks but no thanks for the “respect”.

I don’t feel safe here as I am a non religious Jew. I am not even beginning to compare my feelings of fear with anyone else. I know what I feel is a tiny fraction of what many, many people face.
I wish people wouldn’t speak on behalf of a community by saying we are “safe”.

Oh my god this is so true!! But the more they hate us the more Jewish we become - we will be twirling the payos before you know it 😂

I personally wouldn’t end a friendship over differing political views. I’d rather have an open and respectful discussion with them over it and try and see each other’s POV. If you have to agree to disagree then so be it.

Ending friendships over political views is how you end up in an echo chamber

This is interesting…https://x.com/mishtal/status/1848989752885703094?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ]]

urgh 😫
These are the people who go to marches.

I'm not sure that's necessarily the case though. You can on the one hand criticise the actions of the Israeli government whilst at the same time, believing that Israelis have a right to a homeland and the state of Israel, whilst....also believing the same for Palestinians, and recognising that it's incredibly complex and problematic when lines are drawn on a map over existing boundaries / places where people already live etc etc. And I imagine many Israelis hold those (not mutually exclusive) views. And it's possible I believe (although recognise that some disagree) to hold all of those views and at the same time, not be being anti-Semitic.

I wouldn’t want to be friends with you. What happened on October 7 was an atrocity. Those now reaping the consequences of that day cheered Hamas and danced in the street. Now I’m supposed to feel sorry for them? Nope! I don’t have any feeling for anyone facing hardship as a result of the actions they supported.

Do you feel sorry for the Palestinian children who are being killed and maimed and who are dying of disease and on the verge of famine? Surely they are innocent victims?

It is possible to feel deep sorrow and horror for more than one thing at a time.

Can't you just agree to disagree?

Absolutely it's possible. But I was asking the question of a poster who says she doesn't feel sorry at all for Palestinians reaping the consequences of what Hamas did on October 7. I just wondered if that lack of sorrow extended to the children.