To think my friendship will need to end due to Israel/Palestine?

[VioletW]

I've been close friends with a Jewish woman for ten years. We went on lots of trips together, lived in two different countries at the same times, been there for each other through all sorts.

Anyway since she moved I see her once or twice a year, the second time usually being Christmas. She always looks me up at Christmas and I'm anticipating the same this year.

My position is that I disagree with the October 8 attacks and also what's happening in Gaza is horrific. I've been to demonstrations about this, even bumping into two other Jewish friends at these.

I've seen my friend posting online that these demos are 'Anti Israel'. All of her posts are in support of fighting anti semitism and she has never posted about Palestine, although she works for a humanitarian organisation. AIBU to think this simply ends the friendship?

This is very much how I feel about it too.

Awful posts on here, but then that's to be expected with the OP being what it is. Imagine wanting to not talk to someone for caring about anti-Semitism 🙈

How is “We will only tolerate you if you’re the type of Jew that says the things we want to hear otherwise you should be tried for genocide support” not anti-semitism?

“Be a good Jew or we’ll round you up”. Great message.

Your solution to this problem is for Israel to no longer exist yet you claim you’re not anti-Semitic. You say that all zionists should be tried for war crimes, so what is your solution to the conflict? Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people should have their own country. If you are anti-Zionist then you don’t think Israel should exist. How are you going to remove Israel? Where do you want the people to go? Posting reams and reams of rhetoric along with links to articles (some of which you’ve misrepresented btw) is great but your argument seems to boil down to “Israel should be removed from the face of the planet”. You hate zionists so therefore you hate Israel and are telling British Jews they deserve what they get because of what Israel is doing. The only connection those British Jews have with Israel may be their faith but you’re insisting you’re not anti-Semitic and that your views are worthy of respect in a democratic society. I’m for freedom of speech but your views are repugnant and divisive and are only worthy of disdain. Respect has to be earned and I will not respect anyone calling for the elimination of millions of people. All of your arguments are negated when they basically all boil down to “get rid of the Jews” or “you deserve it because you’re Jewish”. If that’s not how you fell then you need to edit your posts pretty damn quick.

I can’t let this pass without comment.

Hmm let’s see, why have I been called an antisemite.

1. I called out inflated reports of antisemitism as being conflated with criticism of Israel, or zionism
2. I believe these inflated reports are used to manufacture consent for genocide in Palestine. This view that Jews are under threat so they need a safe place to go.
3. I believe Israels actions are the cause of insecurity of Jews in the diaspora and in Israel
4. I believe Jews are safer in their home country than in Israel and I believe the actions of Israel endanger Jews, including the people it calls on to serve in the IDF. Many Jews have left their home country (UK, France, US, etc) to serve in the IDF, and they were killed while committing war crimes and serving genocidal regime
5. I believe Israel needs complete and total reform, from the genocidal apartheid regime it currently is, just as South Africa
6. I believe individuals that support genocide should be held socially accountable for their views and advocacy

You’ll note, my antizionist stance is protected by law. I stand by all of my comments.

amp.theguardian.com/money/2024/oct/14/anti-zionist-beliefs-worthy-respect-uk-tribunal-finds-israel

You didn't call out inflated reports. The link you provided says only actual anti-Semitic incidents were counted. You yourself have since been called out on misrepresenting the facts but you're refusing to accept it. Does truth not matter to you?

Jewish people are not safe in the diaspora because we're constantly being threatened, which is why CST, parent volunteers and funding for security by parents is required at Jewish schools. You've repeatedly ignored these facts. You are incorrect in your repeated assertion that Jewish people are safe in the diaspora. It is not factual.

And again, stop misappropriating the word Zionism. It's not ok.

To those who cannot be bothered to click the link, this view is protected by law: “..not incompatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others”.

‘Miller, who lectured at the university on political sociology, told the panel he thought Zionism was “inherently racist, imperialist and colonial”.
He added that Zionism was “ideologically bound to lead to the practices of apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide in pursuit of territorial control and expansion”. But he told the panel that his anti-Zionism did not equate to opposition towards Jews.
..

The judge continued: “[Prof Miller]’s opposition to Zionism is not opposition to the idea of Jewish self-determination or of a preponderantly Jewish state existing in the world, but rather, as he defines it, to the exclusive realisation of Jewish rights to self-determination within a land that is home to a very substantial non-Jewish population.’

I don’t need to click on a link to know that it’s really easy to say one thing while doing the opposite. If it walks like a duck…

Yes, he might not have been found to be anti-Semitic on this occasion as he wasn't arguing against self-determination for Jewish people. Other people who use the exact same phrases are arguing against Jewish self-determination and therefore would be anti-Semitic.

Stop misrepresenting your own sources and quotes.

You didn't call out inflated reports. The link youprovided says only actual anti-Semitic incidents were counted.

Actual? Who defines what is an ‘Actual’ incident.

QUOTING this for the second time:

‘The most common form of anti-Jewish discourse used in antisemitic incidents throughout the year either referenced or was linked to Israel, Palestine, the Hamas terror attack, or the subsequent war.’ (CST)

Conflated.to.manufacture.consent.for.genocide.

‘The belief that Israel’s actions amount to apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide are “worthy of respect in a democratic society”, said the judge.

"Events in the Middle East informed the language and content of incidents reported to CST. The most common form of anti-Jewish discourse used in antisemitic incidents throughout the year either referenced or was linked to Israel, Palestine, the Hamas terror attack, or the subsequent war. This rhetoric was evident in 1,774 (43%) of the 4,103 cases reported to CST, rising from the 246 recorded in 2022 – a year without a significant trigger event in the region. Of these, 85% happened in the aftermath of Hamas’ attack. A total of 1,299 antisemitic incidents exhibited anti-Zionist motivation (compared to 149 in 2022) alongside antisemitic language or targeting while the terms “Zionism” or “Zionist” were used on 260 occasions, often as euphemisms for “Judaism” and “Jew”, or alongside other antisemitic language. In at least 427 instances, the phrase “Free Palestine” was employed in speech or writing in an antisemitic way. Although not an inherently antisemitic statement, each of these cases were deemed as such because these words were used to abuse Jewish people or institutions simply because they were Jewish, or formed part of a larger outburst including explicitly anti-Jewish sentiments"

Here is the rest of the quote. Weirdly, when you don't just cherry-pick quotes it tells a very different story. I've put parts in bold that shows just how badly you're misrepresenting your own source.

Yes, he might not have been found to be anti-Semitic on this occasion as he wasn't arguing against self-determination for Jewish people.

So antisemitism is arguing against self determination for Jewish people.

What’s it called when self determination is allowed for Jewish people but no right of self determination for the Palestinian people?

And this is why zionism is an inherently, structurally racist and fascist ideology, and Israel must be reformed of Zionism in its current form.

Self determination for ALL, freedom and a right to exist for ALL. Is there anything wrong in what I said?

The hatred of an organisation whose sole purpose is to deal with anti-Semitism is really, really odd. It's not a political organisation. It's purely there to prevent anti-Semitism. Why does that bother certain posters so much?!

Seeing as I've never argued against self-determination for Palestinians, I don't really understand what you're trying to achieve with that comment. I'm all for a two state solution, always have been. Many Zionists are, certainly the ones I know. Zionism doesn't mean no Palestinian at state. That is just what you are pretending it means to suit your narrative. It's why I've repeatedly asked you to stop misappropriating the word Zionism.

But yes, arguing against Jewish self-determination is anti-Semitic. I'm not sure what word is used for arguing against Palestinian self-determination.

What does this ”Israel must be reformed of Zionism in its current form” mean? Well, what do you think it means? You want Israel to stop believing it should exist?

It matters whether the CST considers as 'extremist', e.g., the chant 'From the river to the sea / Palestine will be free', because the CST produces widely cited figures on reported 'antisemitic incidents', even as it refuses transparency about the basis for those figures.
Jamie Wiener, British Israeli political researcher

Abort, abort! Gladly.

Again, read your own source. They've taken the time to explain that they've only included those phrases when they've actually been used in an anti-semitic way. It's all there, you just need to read. I even highlighted some of it in bold for you in the comment you were replying to. I'm not sure why you're struggling so much with this.

Why are you so opposed to the idea of someone fighting anti-Semitism?

I refuse to let them have the last word if that last word is full of misinformation. It needs to be pointed out so others who lack critical thinking and comprehension skills don't fall for it. They're using dangerous rhetoric so it needs to be called out.

(Still waiting for them to stop posting their constant derailments! I was really looking forward to them stopping)

My maternal great grandmother was Jewish although she converted to Catholicism. My nan also kept her crucifix and requested to see s

OP you should defo not be friends either her.

That woman deserves much better than an anti-Semitic like you in her life.

I hope your friend has been okay during this time where being Jewish in the UK isn’t safe any more.

I honestly don't think I am anti-Semitic. I don't dislike all Jewish people, I don't even dislike all Israeli people.

How good of you. 🙄

I wrote a long post but my phone’s playing up and I can’t be bothered to retype.

I’m ethnically Jewish with family in Israel and I don’t agree with what the Israeli govt are doing in Gaza. I don’t agree with the West Bank settlements.

That being said, I wouldn’t go near those marches with a barge pole for too many reasons to write on here.

I just pray for a ceasefire soon.