To think my friendship will need to end due to Israel/Palestine?

[VioletW]

I've been close friends with a Jewish woman for ten years. We went on lots of trips together, lived in two different countries at the same times, been there for each other through all sorts.

Anyway since she moved I see her once or twice a year, the second time usually being Christmas. She always looks me up at Christmas and I'm anticipating the same this year.

My position is that I disagree with the October 8 attacks and also what's happening in Gaza is horrific. I've been to demonstrations about this, even bumping into two other Jewish friends at these.

I've seen my friend posting online that these demos are 'Anti Israel'. All of her posts are in support of fighting anti semitism and she has never posted about Palestine, although she works for a humanitarian organisation. AIBU to think this simply ends the friendship?

That is absolutely disgusting

These are the pro Palestinians

No wonder they attract such vitriol (outside Mumsnet of course)

All I can think is that if the word ‘Jew’ was replaced in the vile posts in this thread with any other ethnic group or religion, the world would be in uproar.

but it’s okay because we are Jews.

fuck you and your pure antisemitism.

We have risen above you in the 40s, and will do so again.

Never been prouder of my Jewish identity - which is nothing to do with a political government.

Oh and finally, please please please end your friendship with your ‘friend’.

She would be absolutely horrified to have someone as racist as you in her life. You will be doing her the biggest favour.

God I wish Mumsnet wasn’t anonymous and I knew who this poor ‘friend’ is to warn her to tell you to absolutely do one. All because she posts about antisemitism….

Yes yes yes 🙌

why give them a stage ?? It’s an upside down world.

I wonder why they need security ? Maybe the rabid Jew hate has something to do with it.

I have had a friendship (though only an online one where we'd met once in person) end over this very issue. She was the very pro-Israel one (she was originally from Israel although doesn't live there now) and I was the one who said, very diplomatically IMO, that I thought there were two sides to the story and I sympathised with the dead and injured in Gaza too. That is literally all I said to her. She decided to unfriend and block me not because of what I said, but what I didn't say. She made it very clear that she was disgusted with everyone she knew who hadn't come out massively in support of Israel as the only victims in the situation. Our silence was evidence of appalling anti-Semitism.

I honestly don't think I am anti-Semitic. I don't dislike all Jewish people, I don't even dislike all Israeli people. I dislike what certain Israeli politicians are doing at the moment, and I disagree with anyone who thinks they are blameless and just doing a proportionate response to the attack last year. If this person had showed any sign of compassion for the victims in Gaza I would have cut her a bit of slack. As it was, I was trying to figure out how to reduce our interactions in a polite way when she took matters out of my hands, and I'm relieved that she did.

Hahah this is epic - “I don’t even dislike all Israeli people”.

The use of the word ‘even’ is utterly hilarious and shows how misguided you are. Well done, you don’t ‘dislike’ a whole country of people. Imagine saying ‘I don’t even dislike all Africans’ or something equally ridiculous - entirely racist, stereotypical and naive.

Your acquaintance may be in the wrong if your version of events is true and they do not recognise the suffering of all, however you need to look at your underlying assumptions about a whole country (that gives equal rights to Jews, Arabs, Christians etc).

Although I feel sympathy for innocent children, I remember that they will grow to support the same terrorist organisations sported by their parents.

I have no real sorrow no.

Apropos of nothing, I learned today of a 2009 visit Netanyahu made to the Wannsee Villa where the Nazis formulated the Final Solution. This was where Nazi leaders talked for about an hour and a half to discuss a solution to the “Jewish problem” and sealed the fate of millions of Jews. Before he left, Netanyahu wrote 3 words in the visitors’ book…”Am Yisrael Chai”.

I find that shocking. That you can view footage of dead babies and children with amputated limbs and feel no sorrow because they are Palastinian and might grow up to support Hamas.

I feel sorrow for the victims of 7 October, the civilian victims in Gaza and the Lebanon. The footage of both makes me cry.

My final thoughts as I will not respond to anyone quoting me anymore so this thread can move on.

Israel in its current form needs to be fully reformed from its racist, fascist brutal ideology, just as South Africa was purged of its ideologies - toxic, and incompatible with basic humanity and morality. The majority of its ruling party Likud need to be imprisoned for crimes against humanity.

Just this week a full third of the knesset attended a meeting on how to settle Israelis in Gaza. Ethnic cleansing in all its glory, in full view of the world.

No one can say they didn't know what was going on when the Israelis flaunt so publicly.

Anyone (jews, christians, muslims, hindus etc etc) supporting Israels current actions should face the social consequences of supporting the genocide of infants and children, let alone innocent civilians - ostracised by friends, family, and the wider community, and eventually, face the legal repercussions of publicly advocating for genocide.

You seem intent on ignoring the lived experience of Jews that has been repeatedly shared with you on this post. I thought we had all learnt better than that through important movements such as Black Lives Matter?

We have (quite rightly) been taught as a society to listen to those who experience racism and discrimination, not question them.

however, if you are intent on reading articles rather than listening to others, there are plenty that explain why ‘from the river to the sea’ is antisemitic.

I have deliberately linked one from a ‘non Jewish organisation’ as I am already anticipating your backlash at that.

eg
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/slogan-river-sea-palestine-will-be-free

With over 95% of Jews viewing themselves as zionists (ie believing that the Jewish people should be allowed their own state - not referring to a war or particular political agenda) your limited viewpoint will automatically mean you think the vast majority of Jews should be ‘ostrisched from their family friends etc’. Please take a minute to see how racist this is.

So my 3 year old should not be able to interact with anyone outside of her own religion because of her celebration of being Jewish and Israel’s birthday etc?

Myself and my husband should not be able to work, function as contributing members of the community and continue to enjoy our wide circle of friends from all backgrounds? We should simply only be allowed to interact with Jews.

My surgeon brother should not be allowed to work for the NHS where he saves lives on a daily basis because he believes we deserve a place of safety after 7 million of us were murdered in plain sight, including our own grandparents.

I should not dare to continue my extensive charitable work that supports all families from all backgrounds who have children with SEN.

oh wait, why don’t you give us a yellow star whilst you’re at it to ensure no one makes the awful mistake of interacting with us?

Are you even reading the links you yourself are linking too? Clearly not as here's an example from your link of "Palestine will be free" being anti-Semitic. Other times, they haven't included the phrase, or similar ones, in their anti-Semitism statistics.

No, Jewish people here are not safe. We are constantly targeted. Again, read your own link. People are calling for our annihilation and murder. This is also from your link that you didn't bother reading.

And anyone who takes this much time denying anti-Semitism should also be ostracised.

Obviously, anyone showing any support towards our excusing the behaviour of genocidal terrorists should also be ostracised by friends, family, and the wider community, and eventually, face the legal repercussions of publicly advocating for genocide.

The courts will be very busy 😳

Non Jewish organisation 😂

Who We Are
ADL is the leading anti-hate organization in the world. Founded in 1913, its timeless mission is “to stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all.” Today, ADL continues to fight all forms of antisemitism and bias..

Ok to everything you said apart from that 👆🏼Antisemitism like any other form of bigotry should not be tolerated, we are agreed on that. But anti Zionism is categorically not antisemitism, as ruled by court of law in Jan of this year.

I am a liberal and feel abandoned by my left wing counterparts who seem to have a blind spot in their social justice and anti racism when it comes to antisemitism.
Your comment was such a lot of word salad, yet you still ignore the experiences of Jews. My granny is 102 - she feels that Israel is back with the original owners after the Islamic conquest by the ottomans. And further back Roman Empire - In other words a good example of decolonisation.

I didn't really care much about Israel when I was younger, I am not religious, I am ethnically Jewish -My dna tells me that - but more importantly I have Jewish history that is not pretty, like most of us.

I worked in the kibbutz, I have friends in Israel but no family - I was a bit meh about it. Then Oct 7 happened - we knew people that were slaughtered in Kfar Aza -we saw the video footage of them rejoicing to god they had killed Jews. I was woken up -the generational trauma we all carry was triggered.

I realised no-one is coming to save us, yet Jews continue to save the world in medicine and medical advance like cancer treatment ,scientific advances ,agriculture and technology innovations. We have given so much to the world from barbie dolls to life saving polio vaccines.

WE LOVE LIFE but we can’t rely on outside help - only Jews will protect Jews - we know that now and that’s why we need to stick together and support each other.
Am Yisrael chai - The Jewish people live.

Until it is plastered all over a Jewish cemetery as per the example in your very own link, at which point it also becomes anti-Semitic.

Plus, anti-Zionism can be anti-Semitic if it's coming from the p.o.v that Jewish people don't deserve self-determination in their homeland.

If you have a problem with Israel existing, you're the one who is all for genocide and ethnic cleansing. If you are using anti-Zionism to mean something else, you've misappropriated a word. So you should probably stop.

I thought you weren't going to be posting about this anymore. Feel free to follow through on that.

Again, shocking that you linked to the ADL, one of the most rabid pro Israel and Zionist orgs which seek to conflate anti Zionism with antisemetism - do better.

The Apartheid Defense League (@ADL) is falsely accusing anti-genocide people of antisemtism.
^^
What a toxic organization, conflating anti-genocide views w antisemitic views. I cannot think of a more dangerous conflation for Jews than that. Dear ADL: Stop endangering Jews.—Zachary Foster

The ADL have a long and interesting history, this document on the FBI website regarding their aims and objectives, for anyone interested in whether the ADL is a neutral party

You obviously need to back that picture up with an actual source ie not "I found it on X" or a generic "from the FBI"

@Chillichutney1 is a textbook example of the kind of stealth antisemite of which there are many (and which the Labour Party spent a long time trying to expel). The kind of “Jews need to decide whose side they are on in order to be worthy of our protection” rhetoric.

Outrageous that this person can set themself up to judge people’s moral standing based on their response to the current situation in the Middle East. And to make Jews feel that denial of their right to statehood is a requirement of their tolerance.

I will say this again: I find the behaviour of the current Israeli government and the IDF intolerable but this “pick your side” stuff is the opposite of what should happen in a democracy.

We all need to call this out.