To think my friendship will need to end due to Israel/Palestine?

[VioletW]

I've been close friends with a Jewish woman for ten years. We went on lots of trips together, lived in two different countries at the same times, been there for each other through all sorts.

Anyway since she moved I see her once or twice a year, the second time usually being Christmas. She always looks me up at Christmas and I'm anticipating the same this year.

My position is that I disagree with the October 8 attacks and also what's happening in Gaza is horrific. I've been to demonstrations about this, even bumping into two other Jewish friends at these.

I've seen my friend posting online that these demos are 'Anti Israel'. All of her posts are in support of fighting anti semitism and she has never posted about Palestine, although she works for a humanitarian organisation. AIBU to think this simply ends the friendship?

Yes it is. It's to be in favour of the ethnic cleansing of all Jews from the Middle East. People who say zionism is genocide, mean that that zionism protects Jews from genocide, which is why some of them don't like it.

Genuinely cannot read all the posts as it is utterly heartbreaking as a Jewish person to hear of someone complaining that their ‘friend’ posts about anti semitism.

I totally understand criticism of the Israeli government. This is a political issue. However, you are focused on THEIR EXPERIENCE of racism.

Criticise the Israeli government all you like, but how dare you question someone’s lived experience of antisemitism.

You have no idea what we have faced as a community (again nothing to do with the politics of Israel, simply about our religion) since this war started (oh on 7th October btw)

I suppose it's because of how Israel was founded: the subsequent ethnic cleansing, the theft of land, the occupation which has been found to be apartheid, the dehuminisation of the Palestinians and now the genocide.

The government obviously has good and wholesome intentions but they suffer from bad press.

I am 'against' if that is the right word states or nations or countries where they are a religious state. You make a massive assumption about that

There are no countries that Im aware of that are 'christian' states as such, although perhaps the Vatican counts as this, Im not religious so I dont know

I do feel that Jewish people needed their own land/state/nation given centuries of displacement and casting out, that doesnt mean I think that anti zionists (of which some are Jewish themselves) are anti semitic. Im broadly on the side of agreeing there is a need for such a state for Jewish people but it doesnt sit comfortably given my feelings about why there shouldnt be religious states of other religions.

People spouting genocide have no understanding of the meaning on here it seem. Nor understanding that these pro Palestine demos are anti semitic, racism, calling for destruction of Israel and all Jews ( from the river nonsense without even understanding its meaning!)

Israel has a right to exist with terrorist organisations attacking them daily. Palestinians do need freeing - from
hamas

Israel is a western free democracy where Muslims hold high office, women have full rights and freedoms, fats are protected.

hamas is a Islamist extremist terrorist organisation - that openly admits oh doesn’t want a 2 state solution and will only stop when Isreal is defeated and Jews gone.

and it won’t stop there

There are plenty of Christian countries. Including the UK.

And Jewish is not just a religion.

I dont know of any Christian states or countries that have been formed to be a 'Christian state' in and of itself.

The UK has a nominal Christianity, its the Church of England

And I think whether we're talking a racial reason or religious reason for developing a state or country is the same thing really. I dont support it for other religious or ethnicities/races.

Dump her.

There are no countries that Im aware of that are 'christian' states as such, although perhaps the Vatican counts as this, Im not religious so I dont know

England is a Christian state. The head of state is the head of the church and the bishops sit in the House of Lords. All school are required to have daily collective worship of a 'broadly Christian character' (although many ignore this legal requirement).

Yeah the Church of England is the state religion. Hence Christian country. And there are plenty of others around the world. Do yoy have a problem with the existence of any of them?

Most of the western world is built on the fundamental principles of Christianity. Everything about England and Britain as a whole is deeply interlinked to Christianity. Spain, Portugal and Italy are deeply Catholic. All these countries are secularised but all the laws and cultural practices - Christian.

Like I said, bad press.

They werent set up for one religion and one ethnicity, its a completely different scenario!

I do have a problem with the lack of secularism in the UK but its nominal in many ways. We are not a Christian country as such, we are not a religious state

Absolutely.

So if a state was to become a Jewish state over time but not set up to be one you'd be okay with it's existence? Although I don't see why one is okay and one is not.

And do you know for a fact that no countries were founded with Christianity in mind? Apart from Vatican City which doesn't seem to count in your mind. If there was, would you be calling for it to be dismantled?

And the UK is officially a Christian country. The majority might not be Christian - like many people in Israel are not particularly religious - but we have a head of state who is also head of the church, bishops in the house of lords and compulsory worship in schools. And unlike with Israel, the UK wasn't set up as a result of centuries of extreme persecution.

Have you not heard of Pakistan? Bangladesh? South Sudan?

Since the state of Israel was set up as agreed by the United Nations (so it was a legally recognised state, not an illegal land-grab) many other countries which didn't exist prior to 1945 have also been set up.

All of them were born amid violence, displacement, "theft" of the land.

And yet there is not routine questioning of their validity, of their very right to exist.

Only the Jewish state.

Odd that.

You both seem to be aggressively determined to create an argument with me about something that there is no argument about so I wont engage and derail OPs thread any more

Sorry who is being aggressive? And how exactly?

I have friends who's views do t always align with mine so we avoid the topics

Although if you were my friend and I found out you'd been on these marches, I'd think less of you and would take a step back from our friendship

Except when it happens in less popular and easier to ignore places of course.

And not mentioning what Hamas has done, is trying to do and is committed to keep on trying to do to Israelis, is glossing over the horror of Hamas. And feeding into the bogus narrative that all this is somehow Israel's fault.

Your comment about Hamas I think reflects a remarkable lack of understanding in the West about who Hamas are. The initials of their name actually stand for 'Violent Jihad.' They are a radical Islamist organisation. This is not like a situation with the IRA who had a clear, achievable political goal and who were ultimately open to persuasion that this could be better achieved through political means. The IRA after all, were not dedicated at their core to the destruction of England and the English.

The West did not try to negotiate with ISIS. Israel cannot negotiate with Hamas, and Hamas demonstrated quite clearly on October 7th that they were not open to that. It is a testament to the remarkable prejudice people have about Israel and the remarkable naivety that have about Hamas, that people can still after that atrocity think that negotiation is open to Israel as an option. Its not.

Another with the "genocide"

People need to use words they understand the meaning of