To think my friendship will need to end due to Israel/Palestine?

[VioletW]

I've been close friends with a Jewish woman for ten years. We went on lots of trips together, lived in two different countries at the same times, been there for each other through all sorts.

Anyway since she moved I see her once or twice a year, the second time usually being Christmas. She always looks me up at Christmas and I'm anticipating the same this year.

My position is that I disagree with the October 8 attacks and also what's happening in Gaza is horrific. I've been to demonstrations about this, even bumping into two other Jewish friends at these.

I've seen my friend posting online that these demos are 'Anti Israel'. All of her posts are in support of fighting anti semitism and she has never posted about Palestine, although she works for a humanitarian organisation. AIBU to think this simply ends the friendship?

OP - you said at the beginning that your friend considers the demos to be anti-Israel, which i think the organizers would agree with. Now you're saying she thinks they are anti-semitic. Which is it? Assuming you're not teenagers it's a bit immature that you can't have friends with differing views.

Tend to agree @beethecrackon24995

She is correct. Israel responding in the way it has is indeed nothing like the Nazis. That doesn't necessarily make it right or any less distasteful.

There won't be any winners in this conflict. Dealing with extremist terrorist groups is difficult, however Israel's response is heavy and unlikely to work in the long run either.

It is ridiculous for friends to fall out over a war halfway around the world. Especially between Israel and Palestine who have been in almost constant conflict for nearly 80 years.

I changed my comment to add the link. I found it really interesting and thought provoking.

What is happening in Gaza is horrendous.

The Rave attacks were clearly awful, too.

Maybe just never bring up politics.

There isn't anything either you or she can do to end what is happening, unfortunately, so just agree to differ?

How is the conflict ever going to end if people behave like this? She is expressing her opinion, you don’t have to agree with it, but you could at least try to empathise.

GENOCIDE is not something you agree to disagree over. Full stop.

Surely you're old enough and mature enough to have friends with opinions you oppose on some topics?

It's reasonable of you to go on protests that you feel are important. It's reasonable of her to be concerned about the rise of anti semitism that can appear at those protests.

Both Hamas and Netanyahu can be awful and murderous, and threats to peace and stability.

Gosh. This misrepresentation and racism in this is off the scale.

Gaza was not occupied. Israel left Gaza in 2005.

Hamas deliberately broke the ceasefire to bring death on their own people who they did not shelter in the tunnels, when the war they deliberately provoked, started, they spent the aid money building, instead of building up Gazan society to secure ongoing peace and prosperity.

Zionism means that Jewish people have their own state. Which is clearly not a Nazi belief. Israel has full and equal human rights for LGBT and the two million Arab Muslims who live there. Hamas want to eradicate all Jewish people from the ME - there are no Jewish people in Gaza or Palestine, and homosexuality is widely condemned and punished legally by imprisonment or death. That is quite like Nazi Germany.

It is racist to call a race of people ' wonderful'. Jewish people are a mix of humanity, same as anyone else. Zionism is a common belief amongst Jews, and quite central to religious Judaism. You are not disliking the concept you are expressing hatred of the people. Because this is so associated with Jewish people, you cannot try to separate the two to pretend you do not have anti-semitic views. Its a bit like saying ' I don't hate muslims, I just hate halal-ists, they are disgusting' .

How about racist massacres, like October 7th?

There have been wars all over the world, why are people falling out over this one in Gaza?

Op playing along with this 'friendship ' thing you claim to have, from my pov no interest in whether or not you should end the friendship but i think the 'friend' should avoid YOU. Not because you are pro palestine but everything to do with the fact that she is worried about antisemitism and you have issues with hat WTAF. personally, I'd run for the fucking hills

I don't think you have enough info on your friends views on the whole situation to make a decision yet. It might be the case that she's worried about the rise of anti semitism AND against the genocide in Palestine, or somewhere in the middle. If one of my friends was in support of what Israel was doing the friendship would be over for me

its difficult for me, it’s not just difference of opinion it’s kids and innocent people are being killed. It’s oppression and humiliation of Palestinians to be seen as lesser humans. It’s racism and I agree with Owen Jones there is no excuse to allow this disgusting corrupt government to carry on selling arms to the psycho Netanyahu. I don’t care what anyone on mumsnet as I’ve seen first hand what has happened to the Palestinians and it’s shocking how history goes repeat itself. Sick to death of western propaganda iod Hamas this and that . Those poor poor children.

Anyone who denies the anti-Jewish hate marches are full of grotesque anti-semitism is at best wilfully blind.

I certainly would end a friendship with anyone who went on them.

There’s on the ground evidence going back many months here, and on similar X accounts:

x.com/habibi_uk

Yes, and there were kids and innocent people brutally slaughtered in the racist attack on October 7th. It was an attack on civilians.

Hamas has sent an estimated 15,000 rockets into Israel since Hamas ended the ceasefire on October 7th ( actually it was sending rockets regularly into Israel for years prior to this, its just that Israel was not retaliating). The only reason it has failed to cause the devastation in Israel that is being caused in Palestine, is that Israel has better defences. An estimated 12,000 rockets have also been sent into Israel from Lebanon since October 7th. (Oh, and of course Hamas could have protected many of its civilians, the civilians it deliberately brought war to, in its extensive system of tunnels, but has chosen not to).

So Israel was not occupying Gaza (left in 2005), was subject to an appalling massacre of its people, the perpetrators of that attack have said they want to do it again and again and are committed to the destruction of Israel, and Israel has had 27,000 rockets fired into it since October 7th. What other country would be expected to tolerate that without heavy retaliation?

I am not a military strategist, I have no idea what the 'correct' response is. I do know that this is very obviously not the clear ' Israel bad and Palestine good' narrative that many seem to be trying to spin it as. It is appalling for the civilians on all sides caught up in this, and even more appalling that so few are able to recognise this.

In a way , this is how I feel @OonaStubbs

A lot of people are saying there are people motivated by anti Jewish sentiment at these demos. Maybe they exist. But the people I know just want the murder of thousands to end and that's the motivation.

To the people saying what other country would be expected to tolerate what Palestine did on October 7 ,firstly what other country would be expected to tolerate what Israel has done to Palestine since 1948 ? Israels response to the 7/10 attacks has been disgustingly disproportionate..

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005.

What is your view of the of the 27,000 rockets fired into Israel since Hamas started the war with Israel on October 7th? How proportionate is that? How many Israelis would be left alive if they did not have better defences than Hamas does?

What is a proportionate response to a enemy who is openly dedicated to your destruction, shows they mean it by raping, torturing and murdering your citizens in a mass racist atrocity designed to provoke a terrible war, holds babies, women and men as hostages in tunnels, glories in the death of its own people and won't let them shelter from air raids in the tunnels it spent aid money building, and continually fires rockets at you ( even before October 7th).

This is not like the wars between western countries. Hamas wants to establish an Islamic regime and eradicate Israel altogether and all the Jews. Israel is trying to destroy the capability of those who want to destroy it all together.

I don't think there is anything Israel could do in retaliation that the Pro- Palestinian marchers would find acceptable. They say thebombing is too indiscriminate, yet the pager attacks, which were the most precisely targeted attacks in modern warfare, were also condemned. Nothing could have more clearly shown that everything Israel does to defend itself will be too much for these people. They just hate Israel and don't want it to exist.

What would have been "proportionate"?

If there’s nothing specifically in your friendship that’s wrong and you’re just going off of perceived opinions to cut someone out of your life, that’s a childish, low EQ way of living. Plenty of people can be friends with people who have incredibly different opinions to them.

Wow, not sure what I said to get zapped. Because I called out a racist (I didn’t e be n @ them)?

Oh well.