Friend in trouble, police at my door.

[Playgroundincident]

My friends daughter is in year five mine is in year 4. My friend is an black, Muslim Zimbabwean woman daughter is also. Daughter has been receiving snipey racist abuse from a child in her class. Always where teachers can't hear and it's been going on for a couple of weeks. Daughter is a wonderful, sociable intelligent sporty kid an absolute pleasure to be around. Friend had been in to school at the beans thought it had been addressed however over the weekend it emerged that it hasn't and the child is still doing it, daughter hadn't said anything to her mum.
My friend was so upset, we walked in he dropped the kids off his morning, she said goodbye to he daughter then we watched the kids line up to go in. My friend and I stood in another part of the playground till she saw the boy who had been racist towards her daughter. She flew at him shouting all sorts of profanities, told him she was going to hit him, fucking kill him. The child was understandably frightened and the dad of another child stepped in and tried to calm the situation down. I grabbed her and took her out of the playground so the teachers could deal with the child. I've never seen he do this before she is not normally this way inclined but has a shit year with a husband who thinks she is there to serve him, left her for another woman, both parents died so her threshold is low at the moment. I sat with her in the car to calm her down. I told her I can't imagine how she is feeling he daughter being racially abused, told her I understood that she wanted to protect her but threatening to kill a 10 year old was not on. She's now annoyed at me asI didn't stick up for her.
An hour later the police have turned up at my door looking for her asking had I seen her, getting a witness statement because school have reported her. Friend has phoned me saying that she knows it was me who told the police and how she thought I would have her back and the year 4/5 WhatsApp has lit up with comments about how I should have done something slagging my friend and me off. For the record I don't agree with what she did but I've now got her and police to deal with. and now he child who made the racist comments mum threatening me. He whole thins is absolutely zero to do with me. I feel sorry for the children but any advice on how to navigate this would be much appreciated. Not sure whether to go for radio silence with everyone but police and school or say something on WhatsApp. My son is in he school and I don't want any fall out on him or my friends daughter either. Any suggestions appreciated.

Op, I hope this thread has helped you make some sense of what has happened.

Be the adult even when some of the other parents are not displaying maturity. Posting on a WA is juvenile behaviour. The school and police will take care of the matter, and it’s really no one else’s business. I would not get drawn in to any of it.

I imagine your friend is beside herself and I hope she has RL support for herself and her child. Her outburst was not acceptable or excusable, but it is understandable.

Are you in the U.K.?

Maybe moving schools would be best anyway, as the child at the centre of this deserves to be educated without racial abuse every day.

In the UK yes.

I'd be writing in the group that I don"t condone friends reaction, nor do I condone the bullying and racism of the boy and his parents failure to manage his behaviour. There's wrong on both sides but I have no part in that so please don't involve me in it any further.

Honestly your friend was wrong but the rest of the parents sound awful too. I also doubt a 10 year old would be displaying racism unless they had learned that at home. All the racist adults will be loving this drama and being able to paint your friend as the angry black woman.

That is a terrible indictment tbh. I am so sorry the child was subjected to this treatment.

Most schools are all over this kind of behaviour now. I am so sad this was allowed to happen to her.

I wouldn’t want to get that involved tbh. No one is obliged to give information to the police (other than professionals in specific cases of child sex abuse).

That's not correct. Lots of people work in roles where they are part of the child protection mechanism. The OP has stated they have a role with a 'statutory obligation' to assist police/SS etc.

So if the police ask for witnesses of the racial abuse the dd has been getting- no one should say anything?

I have texted my friend and have told her that while I don't condone her actions I understand her trigger. I'm white British but my sister is black so I've seen it for years with her. I've told her that I have given the police the full picture of the kind of person I've experienced her to be which is clever, kind warm and supportive. She is still upset, I don't know what has happened and I haven't had a reply but I do sincerely care about her, I care about the children and I had (have) to continue to do the right thing.

I can’t believe anyone would stick up for a grown adult charging at a child lining up to go into school and screaming and shouting at them and threatening to kill them.

Mum will hopefully now be banned from school premises. If the school where not dealing with bullying you move it higher up the chain and report to the police as well you don’t tell a 10 year old your going to kill them! Smh

Had one of these types of parents at our school recently kicking over an issue (not bullying or racism) it put the whole school in lock down. Parent is banned from premises and the child’s now a social outcast. Nobody wants to go near the child.

The mum did the right thing in my opinion. Hopefully it would’ve given the racist bullying little shit a shock and he’ll think twice before doing it again.

I think you've handled this terrible situation as well as you possibly could, OP.

Given your job, I wouldn't send any texts to the school WhatsApp group or any more to your friend on this subject. Some people will misuse comments for their own ends. You've made your statement to the police, leave it there.

No, the prosecutor will not have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that OP's friend intended to actually kill the child. That is not what is required for the offence. The prosecutor will have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that OP's friend intended the child to fear that she might kill him, which is very different. There is no requirement for OP to actually intend to carry out her threat, merely for the child to think she might.

It is not "extremely challenging" to get a threat to kill charge to stick. There are thousands of such convictions every year.

I am not saying that OP's friend will be prosecuted. That is up to the police and the CPS. But you are repeatedly mis-stating the law.

I assume that you are white and don't know what is like to be on the receiving end of racism?

I think that is the best you can do. In the circumstances.
You know her, and know her to be an intelligent, warm person. Her character and anrecedence will matter even if she is charged by the police. The courts will take the mitigation into consideration.

Your friend’s child deserves to have an education free of abuse and racism.

Of course she went about this the entirely wrong way - but she sounds desperate, triggered and unsupported.

Just remember for every silly parent posting on social media making sweeping comments and generalisations there will be many more parents remaining quiet and will wish to model much better behaviour to the children and wider society.

I hope it blows over. Half term is here soon, hopefully the school will use the time to address the racism issues. Please keep us updated.

Only one percent of Zimbabwéens are a religion other than Christianity ( that 1% figure includes Hindu, animist etc as well as Muslim).

Be cautious, OP.

Totally agree.

I'm racist. This is because I don't like the way a certain religion sees women. That's it. It makes me racist in some people's eyes.

IN this case we don't know what was said to this little girl. It could have been something such as 'you smell', which would also have been awful and unacceptable but the kind of thing that has been said in the school yard for generations. Just because her skin is a different colour does not make every nasty insult racist. So one assumes a racist comment would rightly be handled differently to another comment. Both are bullying and need to be stopped but a racist one needs more urgency and attention. We don't know what was said and we don't know how and if the school was aware/handling it.

That is not true. Threats to kill charges require there to be reasonable grounds for the courts to be confident that the intention to kill was there, and fear for life. I listen to cases exactly like this, they usually have supporting evidence of a degree of planning, purpose. It is a very serious offence, and can not be applied to someone idly saying they will kill you or someone else. There needs to be genuine fear for one’s own life or that of another.

Cross words in a playground is not likely to be enough - unless she was carrying a weapon or there is substantial grounds to believe she intended to kill the child. It does not seem likely to be the case..

So verbally abusing a child and telling them you will kill them is acceptable behaviour.

Hmm

I was bullied horribly as a child, I refused to go to school, was dragged in and eventually moved schools. At no point did my family decide running upto a child screaming and threatening them was acceptable thank god.

No one has said it is acceptable, only understandable in the context of racial abuse of which I assume does not apply to you - or you might understand it differently.

There shouldn’t ever be an excuse for an adult to behave like that to a child. Sorry

Both are bullying and need to be stopped but a racist one needs more urgency and attention.

Why should racist bullying require more urgency and attention than bullying someone for their accent, their poverty, their parent’s profession, their glasses or any other attribute?

You may listen to cases like this but you are clearly not a criminal lawyer as you are yet again mis-stating the law. Offences Against the Person Act 1861 S16 says, "A person who without lawful excuse makes to another a threat, intending that that other would fear it would be carried out, to kill that other or a third person shall be guilty of an offence". Yes, there needs to be genuine fear for one's own life or that of another, but that does not mean that the defendant must have actually intended to carry out their threat as you keep saying.

See, for example, the case of Michael Donaldson, jailed earlier this year for threatening to kill Ed Milliband. He appeared to be drunk at the time and there was no suggestion that he actually intended to kill Milliband. There was clearly no planning involved. He said it was only a joke. However, he pleaded guilty, presumably on advice from his lawyer that he stood no change of being found not guilty given the evidence, and was sentenced to 3 years in prison.

@Wellingtonspie whilst I don't condone her behaviour, it's not purely the bullying.

She has lost both her parents this year - I'm struggling to remember a time when I've been as angry as I was in the aftermath of my mother's death. I absolutely hated everyone, and it's a wonder I never lost it with a complete stranger, as it wouldn't have taken much.

Then you have the hurt and pain caused by her ex husband on top of this.

Not excusing what's happened today, but these things all add another layer on how her friend must have been feeling to reach the point she's reached.

Good that you're still alive to tell the tale, many children who were bullied have take their own lives.

If the school did nothing about it then the mother was simply protecting her childs life. It is a life or death situation as far as I'm concerned. And perhaps other children won't end up in the same predicament now thanks to her actions.