To feel constantly gaslighted by local GP doctors. Is it the norm or should I change my practice ?

[Springtimesadness]

I have recently moved to a new area with my family. Unfortunately , myself and the kids been sick a lot in the past 2 autumn/winter seasons. Some just normal colds others more serious viruses like flu, rsv that needed medical help. Also had a bad case of Strep A for which my child and I were in a hospital.

One of my children and myself are both quite vulnerable to secondary bacterial infections and tend to develop them after a serious virus (not every time). As a responsible parent I take them to GP practice especially if they are not getting better after 6 days or getting worser. However, I have seriously struggled with the level of gaslighting that made me question my child and myself and often even made me delay taking them to the hospital as a result if being convinced 'its just a virus'. To sum up over the course of 2 years GP's have missed my sons chest infection, perforated ear drums, tried to convince me that I cannot have a bacterial sinusitis because it followed a flu (which is a virus) when i have got a chronic sinusitis and struggled with it all my life and know the difference. Its this constant 'antibiotics dont help with viruses' when I am on day 13 of a virus and getting worser so clearly something else is going on.

On all of these occassion often after 14 days of suffering I ended up crying at A&E that nobody wa staking me seriously. Normally x rays were done / check ups and infections quickly identified and antibiotics were quickly given. When it was my child I was always told that my child was very sick indeed and needed antibiotics and I was right to seek medical help.

I have raised this issue up with one of the GPs after another hospital visit and she just laughed over the phone saying that antibiotics in that sense were prescribed out of precaution and both my child and I would have gotten better by ourselves eventually. I just felt again like I am constantly being laughed at by these health professionals and my health concerns are being brushed off until they reach the point of 40 degree fever and I have to look for help elsewhere. I have now got a Ptsd even calling this practice and was wondering if that is a normal way GP doctors now speak to people?

I have just called them to get my other childs ears checked as hes been crying for the 2nd nights from ear ache and i want to make sure its viral and got told ' we dont treat ear ache anymore in this country since 90s so not much we can do that you cannot do yourself at home'.

To add we usually are sick during autumn months and then hardly ever call them so I am not an over anxious person who calls about every single ache. I call when I or my kids really need it. I also dont eat antibiotics like candies but a few times they have saved us.

Am I being completely unreasonable to think that this is not an cceptable level of medical help?

Flu can indeed lead to very serious complications in some people it's not just a regular cold. For me and my son it oftne leads to bacterial sinus infections. Thousands of people die from flu every single year it is not 'just a flu' for some people

That's true, but you also need to look at why you're getting so sick, so often, to the point of needing to go hospital and take antibiotics.

As other people have said, is it your diet? Your environment? Some kind of underlying condition or deficiency? Have any of you ever had blood tests to check your vitamin levels, for example?

I'm not saying you haven't been unwell and needed antibiotics but I do think you need to look at why it's reached that stage so often.

I agree that I think looking at the underlying causes might be helpful here. Are any of you immunosuppressed? It sounds like you are getting flu multiple times? I've never had flu, nor have my children so far, so repeated flu would be a red flag for investigation I would think. Or are you just using flu to mean a bad cold?

A couple of rounds of antibiotics every year is actually quite a lot, I would think most healthy adults go a few years between courses. The last time I had antibiotics was for a breast abscess two years ago and then probably about 10 years prior to that. If you are all routinely needing antibiotics frequently for the normal kind of school rounds of coughs and colds, I would be pushing for more intervention, perhaps with another GP if you've lost faith in this one.

I do have a diagnosed ptsd as I have lost 2 relatives to 'just a viral infection' named Covid. In both of the cases there was a secondary bacterial infection that wasnt treated in time by GPs. I appreciate all the responses calling me melodramatic and anxious. I dont believe a mother who is genuinely worried about her child and calls only once a year during the peak illness season should be laughed at by a doctor. At least some kindness would go a long way especially if a person seemes genuinely concerned.

From my many conversation with doctors who are more experienced I have never felt as ashamed as I had when talking to GP practitioners. They also assured me that some children do get secondary bacterial infections more than others and that 1 or 2 a year (such as 1 ear infection and 1 tonsillitis for example) was not a worry and they do tend to grow out of them. I will be trying a different practice or going private. Thank you

With anything ear-related the NHS is really not dealing with it anymore, but there are LOTS of fabulous private ear-specialists who will properly investigate any concerns you have any can then refer to your GP for antibiotics. I have taken to doing this now and it's much more effective as they have the specialist equipment and knowledge to deal with it.

Unfortunately ear care is largely a privatised industry now. But for £50 you can put your mind at ease.

Hard to tell about your individual scenario, but everyone scoffing that they’ve only needed ABs once in a decade is being unfair. Some people are more prone to bacterial infections and having one can make further infections likely. This is especially true for some young children and ear or sinus infections due to the fact the size and shape of the tubes can make it easier for them to get blocked. And the pain can be agony, I remember childhood bacterial ear infections that were worse than any pain I’ve had as an adult, including a tooth abcess and broken bones. Some adults also have bad luck in either their general immunity, undiagnosed health issues or easily blocked sinuses. I haven’t had antibiotics for the best part of a decade, and I hate taking them, but in the five years prior to that I probably averaged 4-5 rounds a year because of unending UTIs and bacterial sinusitis that recurred with every cold.

Since the OP said she is looking for signs such as a fever two weeks in, that does sound as if repeated bacterial infections are a possibility for one of her children and for her. And doctors are overworked, but can also be dismissive, especially of women and mothers. So we don’t have enough information for all the hectoring about the state of the NHS and the oh you poor dear you must have health anxiety-ing.

OP, if I were you I’d move doctors if possible and either way would work out a strategy of when you will use self-care, pharmacist, GP and then follow up options if needed (GP, 111 or last resort A&E). And be really clear at each stage why you’re escalating but without making it emotional - With sinuses I have usually had other signs it’s bacterial, like fairly neon coloured mucus. If you have a male partner maybe get him to ring both to avoid getting more annoyed yourself and as he is more likely to get a respectful response.

You do want to minimise use of ABs as much as possible for your own family’s health, and bear in mind that antibiotic resistance isn’t just a global/population issue, but an individual one - the more your children are exposed now, the fewer effective options they might have later in life. But sometimes they are necessary, and you shouldn’t be laughed at without a child even being examined when you have concerns.

Hope you have a healthier autumn this year and can sort out the GP issue one way or another.

Please do not use the phrase ptsd from frustration from calling drs. It's a complex medical condition only diagnosed by psychiatrists from serious trauma.

Without your gps version i cannot tell you if you have had good enough service. They are completely correct that antibiotics do not work for viruses and it's a really bad idea to take preventative antibiotics just in case except in very specific situations. I detect health anxiety here and perhaps you need to seek help for that rather than self limiting viruses. I mean this with kindness as you obviously are concerned for your dc and you and they have had serious issues at times but drs really can't cure colds or other viruses, best to only approach the drs if you think it's bacterial or there's other indications that's it's worsening rather than an arbitrary number of days.

OP, from your first post I was fairly sure you had lived in other countries apart from the UK and one of your later posts confirms it.

I think all of the British people posting here are really unaware of how low we have got in the UK in terms of medical care. On the one hand, of course it’s true that there is a worldwide issue with the number of antibiotics that have been prescribed historically and we are heading for a crisis as a result of the resistance that has developed as a result. It’s really important that everyone is aware of that.

On the other hand, in the UK we seem to have given up on the principle that you can contact a doctor, get a sympathetic ear and get offered some solutions. At every turn nowadays we are told that we shouldn’t be bothering doctors. We should go to a pharmacy, or practice self care or failing that just suck it up. We have gone back about a century in what we expect from our health service. It’s incredibly sad. I have lived in two other European countries (one of which many British people would not consider as ‘developed’ as the UK) and my sister practices medicine in another. Attitudes towards patients there are totally and utterly different. And, I would guess this is true in most developed countries. People who report illnesses are able to see a doctor, are listened to and treatment options are offered. That might not mean antibiotics, as in this case, but perhaps advice about probiotics or investigations as to why the OP and family are getting so many infections.

It is perfectly normal and reasonable for OP to expect her GP to do actively do something to help her. It is not normal that we now appear to think that sick people are wasting a doctor’s time. How low we have sunk in this country.

I haven't taken antibiotics in years as everything I've had I prefer to let my body fight it, but to the posters saying twice a year is a lot, is it really? My dad takes them at least every month as he has recurring infections

You need to address the underlying cause here. Either there is something making you prone to illness because it’s not normal to be pick up everything going round AND develop it worse than other people. Or you do have an element of health anxiety.

Personally, I would try another surgery as you like have a reputation as a frequent flyer now. If the new practice treats you the same way, you need to look at the common denominator.

Flu is easily transmitted and on that occassion my kids didnt get their community vaccination done before they caught it at school. My husband caught it from a collegue at work and then we were all sick. If somebody coughs next to you at work for a few hours with a flu, you are highly likely to catch it there is no wait to prevent this. What is there to investigate ? Thousands of people catch flu every year it doesnt mean they got problems.

I mentioned we had a flu once how is this a lot ?

It is very worrying to be ill and to not be able to get help and support from your GP.
I understand that feeling. It must be especially concerning with your children.
I had a perforated ear drum after trying to ignore an ear ache that I didn’t think the GP would consider serious, then I didn’t want to bother A and E over the weekend. It didn’t heal for months. It can be difficult to get help.
Is there one GP at the surgery who is kind and you can trust? A good pharmacist can also be really helpful.
I think that maybe many of us are missing the human contact element that a GP used to offer. Speaking on the phone and never being examined or seen doesn’t fulfil our emotional needs when we are sick these days.

That's a cold, not flu (influenza) unless diagnosed in a lab as such.

Flu can indeed lead to very serious complications in some people its not just a regular cold. For me and my son it oftne leads to bacterial sinus infections.

If you've only had it once, how can it 'often' lead to anything?

On the other hand, in the UK we seem to have given up on the principle that you can contact a doctor, get a sympathetic ear and get offered some solutions. At every turn nowadays we are told that we shouldn’t be bothering doctors. We should go to a pharmacy, or practice self care or failing that just suck it up.

Of course people should practise self care or see a pharmacist for advice in many cases - the vast majority of viruses are nasty but self-limiting and don't require a doctors visit, no matter what country you're in.

Yes, a doctor should be sympathetic and should offer solutions but only if you're actually unwell enough to need an appointment and cannot manage your symptoms at home with OTC medication.

Even if you look on American or Australian websites, you're told that various conditions should be managed at home and that you only need to see a doctor if you're getting worse or if symptoms haven't improved after a certain amount of time.

OP I don’t think you are being unreasonable at all, to expect healthcare for you and your child when unwell. Look to change GP if you can and if not speak to the practice manager (not in a complaint way but in a this is very difficult kind of way).

Don’t fall over yourself to sacrifice yourself and your child at the alter of a barely functioning health service, like everyone on this thread. Your responsibility is to your child and if that means advocating for them then carry on. Better that than sepsis from an untreated illness.

Needing antibiotics twice a year isnt normal. One of my kids has never needed abx while the other has only taken them twice despite being senior sch age.
Kids viral coughs can linger on for weeks with a nasty sounding cough that actually isn't as serious as it sounds.
People have become too reliant on just having antibiotics when actually they need to be saved for times when you won't recover without them.
Antibiotic resistance has arisen because of people using them for every viral cough, multiple courses every winter.

Yes, needing antibiotics twice a year is a lot and a doctor should be looking for underlying issues - once a month is insane!

But the bacterial sinus infections which you say your flu leads to AREN’T “very serious infections” 🤣 . They’re bacterial sinus infections (which I’ve sporadically lived with for 20yrs & never once thought to get antibiotics for)!

Also, please don’t try to teach me (HCP currently sat in my own clinic at a GP surgery) what is or isn’t a “very serious infection” or how serious flu can be. It’s patronising, catastrophising and pushy. I’m not actually surprised your GP surgery are pushing-back.

Make sure you get yourself a flu jab .

Twice a year is an extremely high amount of antibiotics for anyone adult or child. In our family one child has never had them, one had them for infected chicken pox. I have had them for childbirth related things and once for a dental infection. That's a normal level of use. Probably one course every 5-10 years.

I think back off from the GP, make sure you're eating 5 fruit and veg a day, getting plenty of exercise, taking a multi vitamin and getting enough sleep.

If ill, plenty of rest and fluids and use over the counter pain relief.

Just because A and E give you antibiotics doesn't mean you actually need them. They're probably just trying to make sure you don't come back again tomorrow.

Yes, but most of the people who die are over 80, which presumably does not apply to you or your children. Antibiotic resistance is a much bigger potential problem than seasonal deaths from flu.

Again how is you, a stranger from mumsnet, telling me that it was a cold not a gaslighting of my experience and my health history? But GPs havent got labs either and yet they claim everything is just a prolonged virus on what basis ? Yes flu was confirmed with a swab at A&E same as a strep A and RSV ( all caught in different years which is normal so not 1 bad month) because they have to do those things for statistics as that also helps to monitor active infections in the community.

@LettuceSpray And in some countries antibiotics are given out routinely to placate anxious parents. My Italian friend is constantly moaning that in Italy you always get a prescription if you go but not in the U.K. As none of us are the ops GP we don't actually know if she or her dc actually needed antibiotics or even a drs visit, not how often per year she is going - the little boy who cried wolf is a good analogy here, if you get known as "one of those patients" pestering for antibiotics for viruses there's every chance that they could then miss the time they actually needed them. I've worked in a drs and 90% of our appointments were used by 10% of our patients, we had a handful of families that were in and out a lot for these minor things, I'm not a doctor or nurse so wasn't my call but I know certain gp's would end up prescribing to get them out of the surgery (this was 20 years ago)

This is not gaslighting.

It's simply your GP disagreeing with you.

You're expecting antibiotics for everything. You say you've had them twice a year and according to you, that's not excessive.

I've had one course of antibiotics in eight years, and they were prescribed by my dentist.

A&E didnt give me antibiotics as a treatment I was admitted with a Strep A which is a bacterial infection and that was a treatment for it. My child had developed a bacterial infection after a virus. Antibiotics are a bacterial treatment for a bacterial infection why should a very sickly child be denied them when they are clearly needed in the moment and play lets wait and see game after 2 weeks of being very ill?

I am responsible for my childs health and i dont want these experiments on my child. GP doctors are more than welcome to do that on their own children for the sake of protecting the world from global antibiotic resistance.

Are you practicing good hand hygiene? It’s not typical to be that unwell so frequently. I’m with your GP, sorry OP! Overuse of antibiotics will not bode well for anyone.